The Beyond Pain Podcast

Episode 50: Unlocking Potential: The Power of Small Moves

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In this episode of the Beyond Pain podcast, hosts Joe Gambino and Joe LaVacca welcome Britt Frank, a licensed therapist and author, who shares her journey from personal struggles with addiction to becoming a mental health advocate. 

Britt discusses the importance of momentum over motivation, the realities of imposter syndrome, and how to recognize when one is feeling 'stuck' in life. She emphasizes the need for self-honesty and reframing struggles as opportunities for growth, providing listeners with valuable insights into mental health and personal development. 

In this engaging conversation, Britt Frank discusses the significance of small actions in building momentum, the importance of reframing anxiety as curiosity, and the necessity of taking micro steps to overcome fear and get unstuck. She emphasizes that our brains are allies in our journey towards wellness and that self-sabotage is a misconception. 

The discussion also touches on when to seek professional help and the insights from her new book, 'Align Your Mind', which focuses on harmonizing the various voices in our heads to make better decisions.


Takeaways

  • Britt Frank emphasizes that strength doesn't always come from motivation.
  • She shares her experience of living a double life while struggling with addiction.
  • Momentum is more important than motivation in overcoming challenges.
  • Imposter syndrome is a common experience for many, including professionals.
  • Self-deception can prevent individuals from recognizing their struggles.
  • Recognizing when you're stuck is crucial for personal growth.
  • Britt encourages listeners to stop lying to themselves about their situations.
  • Understanding that being 'stuck' means having options is key.
  • The first step towards change is acknowledging that the first step counts.
  • Britt wrote her book during the pandemic, inspired by the themes of resilience. Small moves can lead to significant changes.
  • Instead of asking 'why am I stuck?', ask 'what am I willing to do right now?'.
  • Anxiety serves as a signal, not an enemy.
  • Pain is a protective mechanism and provides valuable information.
  • Micro yeses can help in overcoming procrastination and fear.
  • Self-sabotage is a myth; it's about untrained voices in our heads.
  • The brain is capable of change and growth over time.
  • Finding someone knowledgeable can help navigate fears and uncertainties.
  • It's important to match actions with emotions appropriately.
  • Professional help can be beneficial when feeling stuck or overwhelmed.

Joe Gambino (00:00)
Welcome back into the Beyond Pain podcast. I am one of your hosts, Joe Gambino, and I'm here with your other host, Joe Lavaca. You can find us on Instagram. I am at Joe Gambino DPT. Lavaca over there at TrentonMotion underscore PT. You can find this podcast on Instagram as well, Beyond Pain podcast. And you can find us on YouTube, cups of Joe underscore PT. Joe, I'm still on a roll here, I think.

Joe LaVacca (00:24)
Yeah, yeah, really, really nice, really nice intro. And I was worried that you might mess it up because we have a wonderful guest here today. So way to keep it going.

Joe Gambino (00:26)
Hahaha.

We do. do.

Yes. And as Joe alluded, we do have Brit Frank on the show. She is a licensed therapist and author. I have to admit on the top of this podcast that I have not read your book. And I did know for a while that you were coming on the podcast and I had this conversation with both Joe and, and my wife. And they both said I should read the book prior, but I said, I'm not going to read it because I think it'll make me more curious.

Joe LaVacca (00:49)
It's okay, Brad, I have it right here.

Britt Frank (00:54)
you

Joe Gambino (00:59)
And the book is actually on its way. So I'll be reading it once this podcast is over. So no shame, but I'll let it out there. I figured it'd make me more curious. So I'm sorry. I have not read it yet. I'm very excited to learn more here and then dive into the book afterwards. Well, welcome to the show. Welcome to the show. Now I didn't say that. I didn't say that. I did not say that.

Britt Frank (01:04)
No shame.

That's a great intro. That's like the best. Hi, this is Britt Frank whose book I could give two shits about but she's here. So, okay. Cool, cool. This is my own brain. Totally

Joe LaVacca (01:21)
You

Britt Frank (01:26)
messing.

Joe Gambino (01:28)
I love it. love it. Well, I know Joe read it he's excited about he did share some some notes with me, which, got me actually even more interested. So I will give you the floor. You can tell our listeners anything more about you that you want to maybe have up the book a little bit more than I did. And then we'll go from there. Yes.

Joe LaVacca (01:44)
and a new book.

Britt Frank (01:45)
And the

new book, yeah. So I'm Britt Frank. I'm a licensed therapist and an author, as Joe so clearly said. I'm also a recovering hot mess of a human. And my new book, Align Your Mind, is about how to get all those voices in your head to get along with each other. And that comes out May 13th. Available everywhere. Books are sold. So it's funny. I feel like more people actually come to me because I say fuck them because I went to Duke. And I don't know if that's a good thing or not, but.

Joe Gambino (02:12)
Hahaha

Britt Frank (02:15)
I have a very like polished professional sounding resume and it's all accurate, but I'm also a hot train wreck mess in recovery and both are true. So I'm happy to share both sides of the coin because why not? Life's too short to be full of shit.

Joe LaVacca (02:28)
love that.

I love it. I love it. I'm immediately drawn to you with all the fucks and the shits. I don't look it's March madness right now. So I know you dropped Duke. So we probably just lost half of our listeners because you mentioned Duke. But that's okay. They're still in it, right? There's there's they're still doing good. I think

Joe Gambino (02:35)
Yeah.

Britt Frank (02:35)
It's the Long Island in me.

Sorry guys.

Well, I went to graduate school

at KU, so I've got like the Jayhawk, Blue Devil, Blue Jay mashup, so I can double dip.

Joe LaVacca (02:51)
You got both.

Joe Gambino (02:51)
Mm-hmm.

Joe LaVacca (02:54)
Yeah. Okay.

Right. And that's great because yeah. Well, being at the Met, you mentioned the Mets off air. So now we also now lost the other half of the listeners that were probably listening. With the Mets giving you constant heartache, at least you're rolling into March with two pretty decent teams, you know, every year, I would think I mean, Kansas is always like mixing it up. Duke obviously is Duke.

Joe Gambino (02:57)
huh. So your sports are all over the place. Yeah. Yeah.

Britt Frank (02:59)
Really.

Joe Gambino (03:07)
Yeah

Britt Frank (03:08)
Yep, how can I alienate everyone else? Let's see.

Joe LaVacca (03:24)
So yeah, there's some light at the end of the tunnel there for you, Britt.

Britt Frank (03:28)
Let's hope so, but I have a really good psychiatrist if not.

Joe Gambino (03:31)
That's it.

Joe LaVacca (03:32)
Hey, coaches need coaches, know, therapists need therapists. We say it all the time, all the time. We definitely want to ask you about your life, where you came from, that story. I think that's always really valuable for listeners, but we always have a couple of questions that we like to start off with first. Are you okay with answering just a couple of fun ones? All right.

Britt Frank (03:35)
So true.

Joe Gambino (03:37)
at

Britt Frank (03:52)
You can ask me unfun ones. I'm a therapist.

Joe Gambino (03:54)
Hahaha

Britt Frank (03:54)
Ask away. I got you all day.

Joe LaVacca (03:56)
Joe, do you want to go with the standard one first?

Joe Gambino (03:58)
Yes, our initial standard question is how do you take a coffee?

Britt Frank (04:03)
Okay, so I know the right answer. The cool girl answer is black. And that's just not actually accurate. So I won't lie and pretend it's an almond milk double shot. No foam half scam. It's I take my coffee. do French press coffee because I am on board with the it's better for the environment and the K cups thing. Okay, fine. I loved my Keurig but French press coffee with almond milk creamer. No sugar. There's sugar in the creamer. So that's not really true.

Joe LaVacca (04:19)
Okay.

Joe Gambino (04:27)
Okay. Yeah.

Joe LaVacca (04:27)
All right.

Now, Britt, now we just lost the other half of people. it's gonna be by the end of the podcast, by the end of the podcast, it's gonna be the three of us listening. Okay, fine. Fair enough. Fair enough. Britt, what are you reading, watching or listening to right now that is exciting or bringing you joy?

Britt Frank (04:32)
I know, let's keep going. Let's rock and roll.

Joe Gambino (04:32)
We're in the negatives now, Joe,

by your math.

Britt Frank (04:50)
Okay, so I'm way behind the like scene on Yellowstone and I'm obsessed. Like what the hell is this show? I don't even like to watch drama because I'm a therapist and I live in storylines and cliffhangers. I cannot stop watching this goddamn show. It's so good. my God, Beth is my spirit animal. Like so much yes.

Joe LaVacca (05:02)
You have it every day.

Joe Gambino (05:04)
Haha.

Joe LaVacca (05:11)
That is...

Britt Frank (05:14)
I mean, that woman doesn't exist, but like, let's pretend and I want to be Beth, I want to marry Beth, I want to have Beth, like all Beth all day. So that's what I'm watching. What I'm reading is this is so bad, but this is accurate. So I don't know if you know, but when you write a book, it takes like years to go from, have written this book to now this book is available in stores. So I wrote my book a year and a half ago and I don't fucking remember it. And so now I'm doing media for it.

Joe LaVacca (05:23)
Yeah.

Britt Frank (05:44)
And I have to go back and reread it because someone said to me like you talk about the two this or whatever. And I was like, what the hell did I write? I don't even remember. So I have to go back. I'm also doing the audible and I have words in the book that I can't pronounce. I can write them. But like, I don't know if you've heard of the book flow, like the idea that so the guy who wrote flow, everyone just knows has that crazy long last name. And I put it in my book, which means I have to say it on the audible.

Joe Gambino (05:45)
Hahaha

Joe LaVacca (05:52)
Yeah.

Joe Gambino (05:53)
That's so funny.

Joe LaVacca (06:00)
Yeah.

Yes.

No, I cannot say it.

Big mistake.

Britt Frank (06:13)
So I asked Chatgypt how to pronounce it. And this is how you pronounce it. It's Mihai, cheek sent Mihai.

Joe LaVacca (06:20)
Yeah. man. Well done. Well done, Britt. Yeah. I just call him flow guy because you know, but I haven't wrote a book. My fiance is writing a book. So I am very appreciative of the process watching her go through it. She's ready to give her first draft in I think by the end of the week and then it's going to take a year from there as you know. But yeah,

Joe Gambino (06:22)
Yeah. Love it. Yeah.

Britt Frank (06:23)
practicing that for days. That's what I'm reading. That's what I'm watching. That's what's up.

Slow guy, yeah.

Nice!

Joe LaVacca (06:50)
can totally relate to Yellowstone. Mr. Gambino, do you watch Yellowstone? All right, so we're back on the same page now.

Joe Gambino (06:53)
I have seen Yellowstone, yes. One of the few, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're here. We're here, we

Britt Frank (06:57)
Fantastic.

Joe Gambino (06:58)
made it.

Joe LaVacca (07:01)
Very good. Okay, cool. Well, Yellowstone fan, we got our book. did you say what you were listening to? you're doing the audible stuff right now.

Britt Frank (07:09)
Yeah, I'm trying to

listen to what it sounds like to say Mihai. Csikszentmihalyi Uh huh.

Joe LaVacca (07:15)
you accept me? Very good, very good. What

about music, What's on the turntables these days?

Britt Frank (07:20)
So

it's because I listen to people talk for a living and I also give speeches. So my life is written words, spoken words, listening to words. I'm so words did out by the end of the goddamn day that I can't listen to lyrical music. So put anything on that has no one talking or singing and I'm good.

Joe LaVacca (07:29)
Hmm.

Joe Gambino (07:39)
Yeah, there you go. All right. Well, Joe, before we get in. Yeah.

Joe LaVacca (07:40)
Perfect. All right. All right. Excellent.

Britt Frank (07:44)
Except jazz. Let me alienate more people. I can't do jazz because I can't find the beat because I'm just not that cool. And

so if I can't find like the downbeat, I get stressy and just twitchy. So I don't do jazz. I respect it. I just don't listen to it.

Joe LaVacca (07:59)
Yeah, wow. Okay. I'm a little hurt by that. But that's okay. But that's okay. I mean, look, the theme. Yeah, the theme is, you know, that's okay. fun fact about me is like one of my favorite songs of all time is actually Louis Armstrong's La Vie en Rose So that's frequently on my turntable in the back, but only when I'm trying to like go into flow zone. yeah, Mihai, Mihai zone. Mihai zone.

Britt Frank (08:02)
Yep, let's keep just messing with people.

Joe Gambino (08:02)
Now it's just going to be you

and me, Britt. Joe's going to leave the podcast here.

Britt Frank (08:21)
Mihai!

Joe Gambino (08:23)
Yeah.

Britt Frank (08:24)
Hahaha

Joe LaVacca (08:25)
Man well Brett. Thank you so much for answering those wonderfully fun questions I want to hear more about your new book but there was a Point in the science of stuck or throughout the science of stuck and you alluded to it when we came on the podcast That there has been a struggle through your personal life. I would probably say the other standard question that we always ask guests is to share their story as much as they're willing and

Joe Gambino (08:27)
Yes.

Joe LaVacca (08:53)
how you found the strength to sort of get to the point where you're at now.

Britt Frank (08:59)
So spoiler alert, I didn't find the strength and I didn't have motivation and I didn't feel like it. And that I think is really good news for people who expect this, you know, light bulb moment where suddenly I have resilience and strength and grit and motivate. And I love those things and I have them now. But back then, you know, I grew up on the islands. I grew up in a really stereotypically Long Island family. I went to school. I did my thing. So on paper, nothing looked wrong, but I

my relationships were a disaster, my finances were a disaster, I was smoking crystal meth out of broken light bulbs in like disgusting motel bathrooms and doing the things. I tell people, know, you don't get meth from a well-lit dispensary where, you know, whatever they call weed sommelier named Chad is giving you a fine selection of medicinal sativas. No, like you get meth by doing really, really bad things and having really bad things happen to you.

Joe LaVacca (09:42)
Yeah.

Britt Frank (09:55)
And so I was doing that at night and then showing up for work in the morning. And so I was living this very double life situation. And I don't know if you've ever done speed, but you cannot sustain that. That is not an 10 out of 10 don't recommend. And then like most things that came to a crashing halt where it actually came down to, I, sounds so dramatic, but it's true. If I don't figure out something else, I'm going to die. And while that sounded great, like, you know, it'd be just so much easier not to be here.

I never actually wanted to be on a life. And so at that point, I didn't have strength. was this or either you're gonna do something different or you're not gonna have a chance at bat ever again. And I wasn't done. So I did, what did I do? The strength that I had was like, I had gone days without eating. I called a friend, I told her I was full of shit and I've been living this double life and I'm going on and on. I was also tweaking. So I was very verbose.

And she finally stopped me and she's like, girl, when was the last time you ate a goddamn piece of food? And I was like, yeah, food is sort of a thing. And I sat there and she sat with me on the phone. Cause I don't know if you've ever been tweaking, but you see funny things and getting a spoon into a yogurt into your mouth is just too much coordination. She sat with me on the phone for an hour eating this freaking blueberry yogurt. That was the strength.

It wasn't strength, it was like 120 calories and like 18 grams of sugar, but that's all I needed to then do the next thing, which was take a shower and then the next thing and then the next thing. And then those things sort of add up and build momentum. But I'm a big advocate of momentum over motivation. Because you can do big things while not feeling like it, while not feeling anything. You don't need to feel things to do things.

Joe LaVacca (11:39)
Yeah, wow, that's amazing. And even that last bit, Britt, I think is so valuable. And this is a very common thing that Joe and I talk about on the podcast too, with people who are in pain and distressed, and they just don't feel like they can do anything to move ahead, get unstuck.

Joe Gambino (11:41)
Let's.

Joe LaVacca (12:01)
And it just so reminded me your process there of your chessboard analogy in the book, The Science of Stuck, where you're seeing all these opportunities, but you have to move your pawn first. It had to start with finishing the yogurt. It then had to start with a shower, right? So removing those little obstacles was...

such a valuable thing I took away from the book in the first place and has made it so much clearer for patients to understand that those little wins, those little things you're count so, so much. So I'm assuming you still keep in touch with this friend that you spoke to. No.

Britt Frank (12:42)
a bit that was sort of one

Joe Gambino (12:43)
Yeah.

Britt Frank (12:43)
of those

people that come in and out of your life and then vanish I'm like was she even real because like she has no social media she was older so but no digital footprint I'm like is she dead or was she like a ghost of Christmas future I have no idea what happened to her

Joe Gambino (12:49)
Ha

Joe LaVacca (12:49)
Wow.

Joe Gambino (12:57)
You

Joe LaVacca (13:00)
man, that's wild. when you you also mentioned the one thing where you were like you were going to work, right? How did you deal? Were there ever any feelings of like imposter syndrome during this time? Or did you find that like it was just like a spin cycle back to like the math that helped you cope with the imposter syndrome?

Joe Gambino (13:00)
Interesting.

Britt Frank (13:05)
Mm-hmm.

Bro, I still have imposter syndrome and so do you and even Gambino has it. We all have it. Come on now.

Joe Gambino (13:22)
Mm-hmm

Joe LaVacca (13:23)
Yeah, yeah, totally. We all have it. So

I'm wondering how you dealt with it. Because I'm still trying to find an outlet for mine.

Britt Frank (13:33)
Yeah, so back

then I didn't deal with it. I just ran away from it and speed will do that. I mean, it's not a good thing and I don't recommend it, but if you're high all the time, you're not gonna have imposter syndrome because your brain is too busy being flooded with chemicals. And so the way I talk about it, I actually talk about this a lot in the new book. Imposter syndrome is not a syndrome. I hate that we call it no shade. Everyone calls it that, but.

Joe LaVacca (13:43)
That's fair.

Joe Gambino (13:56)
Mm-hmm.

Britt Frank (13:57)
We call it a syndrome.

Like there's something really pathological or wrong or somehow having it makes you broken or less than, but like that's just part of being human. You know, like if you get a cramp in your leg during leg day, I don't tell you that you now have calf disorder. It's like you're lifting weights. You're going to get a cramp. You walk it off. So what if imposter syndrome was just a brain cramp that you could work with instead of having it define you? And it's like,

Joe Gambino (14:15)
Hmm

Britt Frank (14:25)
If you get a pain in your leg, that doesn't mean now I'm a terrible person and I have no business ever going to the gym again. Some people will think that, but what if this was just, we can normalize that everyone has a little voice in their head that says you suck and it doesn't mean you have to indulge it. It doesn't mean you have to go to therapy for 20 years. What if that was just a muscle spasm and we could adjust to it instead of taking it so seriously.

Joe Gambino (14:51)
Yeah, have a lot of questions here. First one, think just going back to your story, you mentioned momentum over motivation. Your story, what do you think was the outside of maybe the friend? I don't know if that was the biggest turning point for you, but what was like the biggest thing that you kind of that built the most momentum for you to get to where you are?

Britt Frank (15:13)
Yeah, and the friend wasn't the first thing. The first thing was I had to stop lying to myself about myself. And not everyone is as full of shit as I was, but we are all experts in just sort of polishing up the turd. And that can be as severe as, my drug addiction, doesn't really count because I'm still going to work and I'm functional. But it could also be calories don't count on Super Bowl Sunday. So, you know, and I live in Kansas City, so that happened.

Joe Gambino (15:16)
.

Britt Frank (15:40)
the Super Bowl was sort of brutal. So everyone was rationalizing, I'm going to get just rip roaring drunk. I'm going to eat all the food because we are getting humiliated and we're getting our asses kicked. That was a hard game to watch. So we're experts in lying to ourselves. So before I could even make that call or eat the yogurt or whatever, I had to stop buying my own BS because I was really convincing myself I'm fine because I'm still going to work. No, I wasn't fine. And so

Joe Gambino (15:43)
Hahaha.

Joe LaVacca (15:44)
Yeah,

sorry about that.

Joe Gambino (15:57)
Mm.

Thank

Britt Frank (16:09)
When you can stop lying to yourself about yourself, then the whole playing field opens up to start making moves. The biggest way to get unstuck is to start as gross as it feels, as messy and ugly as it might be. As soon as you stop lying to yourself, your whole chessboard opens up.

Joe LaVacca (16:27)
I love that.

Joe Gambino (16:29)
And so with that, just kind of going off that, how would you either A, define stuck and B, how would somebody figure out if they were stuck if they're not aware of it?

Britt Frank (16:42)
So it's interesting. I get asked that a lot. Like, how do know if you're stuck? And I'll say back, well, are you? how's your relationship with sex, with food, with intimacy, with sleep, with your career, with your money, and with meaning and purpose? Like, most people, if they're willing to check in and say, am I stuck? Can answer the question.

Joe LaVacca (16:48)
Maybe the question itself is your answer.

Joe Gambino (16:48)
Hahaha

Britt Frank (17:05)
But again, it's that self deception that says, I'm fine. And actually I find that more people get stuck who are doing okay than people who are falling apart at the seams. At some level, couldn't really, yes, I was objectively a mess. I was hiding my car from like the repo people and I was getting to be very crafty at where I parked so I didn't get my car towed. But if you pay attention and you're not lying, it's really easy to say, okay, I'm.

I'm actually doing okay in most areas, in this one, kinda, I could use a little bit of forward movement here. I am feeling a little stuck. And my definition of stuck, and this is important to me because social media is so flooded with Instagramable bumper sticker slogans that just do that, just do a cold plunge and all of your life will be better and your trauma will be healed and your dogs will never die and whatever. So stuck to me is a situation that's not working.

Joe Gambino (17:39)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Ha ha ha ha.

Britt Frank (18:02)
But assuming that you have solved for, this is not a systemic problem, you're not in a war. If you've got grenades being lobbed at you, that's not being stuck. That's being, you know, in a really bad situation where really bad things are happening. If it's a medical situation where you have no choices, that's not stuck. That's, have a medical condition. You know, if you get a concussion, it's not like you're stuck and you need to just do better. It's your brain got all dinged up. So stuck assumes you have options.

Joe LaVacca (18:33)
When you're thinking about this whole idea of reframing

Maybe this idea that we need some of this stuff, right? Like we need anxiety. We need, you know, maybe to go through the struggle to come out the other side. How do you go about at least convincing people or maybe the first piece on that chessboard, how to go about reframing? And maybe this kind of ties into some of the new book.

Joe Gambino (18:54)
Yeah.

Britt Frank (19:05)
Yeah, and my like kind of glib, cheeky answers, I don't try to convince people. If you don't want to do it, don't. I'm not here to tell you you need to change your life or you need to stop drinking or you need to whatever. It's like I would just be so burnt out if I felt like I had to convince people. So if people aren't into this, then don't do it. If your life's work, if it's not a problem, it's not a problem. But again, you guys have a podcast and I have books out because I do think most people want to feel better.

Joe Gambino (19:32)
Mm-hmm.

Britt Frank (19:33)
They want to do better. They don't want to just say, all right, well, this is all I got. And there's nothing I can do. And so the first step is knowing that the first step counts. I think a lot of people stay stuck because they think, well, I just moved to, I don't play chess, by the way, like I suck at chess. I get the basics, but I wrote sciences stuck during COVID when Queen's Gambit came out. And that show was just amazing. I don't even like chess. And that show was amazing.

Joe Gambino (19:40)
See you.

You

Mm.

Britt Frank (20:02)
And watching her do her moves, it's like watch just the chess games on YouTube. If you haven't seen it, it's amazing. And when you watch her move, you realize that the pawns can do really important things. You can sacrifice a pawn so you can move another piece. If the pawn makes it across the board, it becomes a queen. Like there's a lot of cool shit that happens when you actually take the time to move those little things. People don't think that that counts. I just moved a pawn. What's the point of playing? It's like, well,

That's the whole point of playing. That's your opening move. That's your gambit. like, if you know the small moves count, you're going to be more likely to do them.

Joe Gambino (20:32)
Mm-hmm.

Joe LaVacca (20:40)
absolutely love that. When these small moves start to build, I'm sure other opportunities emerge for people. There were a couple of concepts again from from the first book to but I'm sure you'll please bring in some stuff from the new things as you as you like. People get this momentum going and I feel like they're almost as they get better. They're worried about the fallback, right? The relapse.

Britt Frank (21:07)
Mm-hmm.

Joe LaVacca (21:10)
It's almost like they have more to lose when they have more to gain. I'm sure you see this. I see this all the time. You know, I hand people a little bit more weight. I change in exercise. I have them go to the gym. I have them do this and they're like, well, hold on. How do you know I'm ready for that? So as people are starting to gain momentum, how do you know they're ready for more or when to actually start doing even more of this like scary stuff?

Britt Frank (21:12)
Mm-hmm.

I love that question. Well, I'll ask you, how do know if someone's ready to lift heavier weight?

Joe LaVacca (21:40)
Well, objectively, I usually

would just tell them, hey, look, you did this 12 times. If we're working on strength, let's bring this back down, make it a little bit harder. So we make it a tough for six, a tough for eight. When they're, let's say, going back to running, I'll usually will tell them, hey, you jumped up and down 10 times here without pain. So I think you're clear to go back to running. I feel like that's very objective though. Like,

Britt Frank (22:07)
Well, yes, it's easy to see when you can see someone's rep count or you can see their body or someone comes in with two busted arms, you're not gonna tell them to do pull-ups, right? But what you're talking about is you do progressive overload. You don't start someone out at the highest possible weight. have to, I don't know if I said that right, but like you have to start them at a weight, see how they do, and then you go from there.

Joe LaVacca (22:07)
Is that how you have objective markers like that?

Britt Frank (22:33)
And that's what happens with us. Often we want to shoot for the big, you know, I don't run. I am not a runner. I like to do workouts. I like to stay fit. Running is not my jam, but that would be like me saying, I'm going to start by doing an ultra. And it's like, well, of course I'm setting myself up there before I do an ultra. Maybe I start with one mile. Maybe I start with half a mile. And so if you have, if you're trying to decide, am I ready for the next step?

Ask yourself, well, have I done enough things that seem to be in some sort of alignment with what I wanna do? If you've never launched a business, don't go asking people for $10 million. And so there's some objective things that you can look at. But often there's no reason why we can't take the leap. Like when I started posting on Instagram, I had no followers, I didn't care. I'm just throwing spaghetti at the wall. This was like 2017.

Then when I started building a following, I got so freaked out because I'm like, no, now I'm going to alienate people and internet trolls are scary and blah. And I got a little stuck because I didn't want to post once I started having eyes on me. But then I can say, well, I've been posting original content every day for two years. It does seem like I'm trending in a direction where this is probably okay to risk, but taking no risk.

Joe LaVacca (23:32)
Yeah.

Britt Frank (23:53)
is bad, but taking giant risks that you shouldn't be doing because you haven't built the muscle strength is also bad. So we want to find that sweet spot in between.

Joe Gambino (24:05)
Yeah, I like that. No, I don't. I well, I want to I have a question that shifts gears. If you a question on that, go for it.

Joe LaVacca (24:05)
Do you have any questions there,

No,

I think it was, I just didn't want to dominate and ask too many questions and give you some space to ask yours as well. So, you know, please, no, that was perfectly said for it. Thank you.

Joe Gambino (24:15)
Yeah. So,

yeah. So I have, there's two things that have come to mind. There was something in Joe's thing that he sent me that talked about kind like a, should mindset and brought up two things in my mind that I hear often from, from clients or even perspective, prospective clients. One of them is, you know, they know what to do, but they don't do it or they should do it. Right. So I want to kind of dive into that.

mindset and you know what someone can like maybe something actionable they can do to kind of get over that hump and the other one is fear either fear of movement because they've had an injury or fear of like they just can't get better because they've tried a bunch of things in the past that haven't worked so I'm just wondering where your mind is and what people in those situations can kind of do to get unstuck in a sense

Britt Frank (25:01)
Mm-hmm.

that question. So the first one is the I know I should go to the gym. I know I should do the thing. I know I should not smoke meth. A lot of the stuff is in rocket science, you know, like the question I think that keeps people stuck in that gap that you're talking about, but the gap, the academics call it the intention action gap. I just call that you're being stuck. I know what I need to do. I know what I should do. I'm not doing it. What's going on. I think the thing that keeps people stuck. The number one question that will keep you stuck is why am I stuck? Why are

Why to the gym? Why am I smoking meth? And I'm a therapist. My entire career is built upon answering the why. And I can tell you after 10,000 plus hours clocked with clients, the why doesn't really matter when you're stuck. Why am I not going to the gym is not a great question. Okay, great. Because, because, because, because now you're still stuck. A better question, and this question will get you unstuck, isn't why, it's this. What am I willing to do right now?

I might not be willing to go to the gym right now. Maybe I'm willing to do a five second plank. I might not be willing to eat a kale smoothie right now, but maybe I can throw some, I don't know, kale chips on the pizza I'm about to devour. So not why it's what am I willing to do? Not next week, not on new year's day, not after I sober up. Like I ate that yogurt while I was still tweaking. So it's not, I'm going to wait until I sober up and then I will start. We start now.

So if you're not willing to do that thing, don't ask why can't I ask what am I willing to do right now? That will get you unstuck faster than almost anything. And I spaced your second question because I was like so into the first one.

Joe LaVacca (26:44)
That is awesome. No, that was great. That

Joe Gambino (26:46)
Yeah, that's okay. That's all right.

Joe LaVacca (26:49)
was great.

Joe Gambino (26:50)
No, I like that. We talk about that a lot on the podcast as far as like, well, if you can't do, everyone thinks like they have to be perfect. I need to do five days in the gym or whatever they think and it has to be an hour, but then they can't do that. They miss sessions and then they fall off. And it's like, the fear is the other one. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get back. I was going to, I would report it back. Um, but yeah, it's just, you know, small steps, right? Just start with like,

Britt Frank (26:57)
Mm-hmm.

Right, fear, that's what you said, sorry. just, welcome to my ADHD brain.

Joe Gambino (27:12)
two sessions, 15 minutes, and then let it build up from there. So I love that answer there. So let's go back to fear essential, since you brought it back, I'm curious what you have to say about that.

Britt Frank (27:19)
Sorry, that just came to

me. So the fear of injury, which physically is a thing and emotionally it's a thing, makes a lot of sense. So I have two torn labrum. I have, actually I have three. I have my right one, my left one, and my left hip. And I do a lot of circus aerial stuff for my workouts, which means I'm hanging, which means shoulders, which means hips. It's really scary to go do certain things when I know. I have two, my,

I have a family member who's an orthopedic surgeon and he's like, Britt, you're 45 and shoulders were not designed. He's not a jerk, but it's he's like realistically, you know, like you're 45 shoulders weren't designed to do that. You know, maybe this is not the best exercise. And I told him that is not an option. I want to do this, but I also don't want to be a jackass about it. And so he gave me some tips. So it's, I'm not going to just blindly go in and try to do dynamic.

pull ups or crossfit type movements with swinging, because that's not going to be good for me. But if I want to do the thing and I'm scared of the thing, find someone smarter than you, like my orthosurgeon family member, who can then tell you, hey, this is probably not safe, but this is. And he gave me some really interesting guidance on how to safely do what I want to do that I wouldn't have known because I don't have that expertise. And it doesn't mean you have to go to therapy. It doesn't mean you have to now hire a business coach at

$10,000 an hour forever. But if there's something that you're scared of, find someone who knows more about it than you do. Assume you don't have all the information. I think this is true with anything, whether it's fear of failure or starting a business or stopping a habit or whatever. Assume you do not know everything about the thing. Assume someone knows more than you and find out what they know. That has been a principle that has worked for me for every single thing that I have ever done in my life.

Joe LaVacca (29:11)
I

love that. I love that. I want to, I want to stick with that idea because now that Joe brought up fear, one of the things I'll commonly try to educate people on is, we want to match your action with the emotion that you're feeling. So when you're hungry, you know, going for a drink of water might not be the best thing for your hunger. And I feel like a lot of people do that with pain and different emotions they have. So when I feel that people experience fear,

To me, I tell them your proper action should be avoidance, right? Because that thing can harm you. So you're doing great. But to your point, the question is, well, can this thing really harm me? Is this an appropriate action to be avoiding? And in many cases, this is where I kind of take from you and some others. I almost reframe anxiety in the sense that

Britt Frank (29:52)
Mm-hmm.

Joe LaVacca (30:04)
Maybe we can take anxiety and have it mean more curiosity because there is this uncertainty and why don't we try it rather than avoiding it? So a big part in the book too that I love was this idea of being stuck on up and stuck on down. And it related to me when you were talking about the present moment.

Britt Frank (30:09)
Mm-hmm.

Joe LaVacca (30:28)
Because I feel like when you are too stuck on up, and I'd love you to elaborate on that, let people know how they know this maybe, you're worried about the future when you're stuck on down, maybe you're worried about the past, and then that leads to inaction in the present. does reframing anxiety into curiosity make sense to you? And how do people know when they're stuck on up, stuck on down?

Britt Frank (30:50)
I love that. And I love that you said reframing anxiety, because we all talk about anxiety. Like it's this evil empire that's got its soldiers with its guns pointed at us, ready to destroy our lives and our efforts. And that's not what anxiety is. Anxiety is not a gremlin that sits on your shoulder trying to destroy you. Anxiety is like, and I like the curiosity piece, because this is how I look at it. Anxiety is the check engine light of your brain. And so if I'm driving my car and my check engine light comes on, well,

Back in my day, I would duct tape over the light so I wouldn't have to see it. And I could just la la la, pretend like nothing's wrong. Or if my car was still available to me, it's so bad. my God, it's such a hot mess. But like when your check engine light goes on, if I go to a mechanic, he's not gonna say, okay, Brit, your check engine light is on. So therefore you have check engine light disorder. That's insane. But how often do we feel anxiety? And then you go to a therapist.

Joe LaVacca (31:23)
Well, if you can even find your car, if you can even find your car.

Britt Frank (31:49)
And they say, well, you have anxiety, therefore you have an anxiety disorder. It's just as insane. Anxiety is information. That's it. It's just information. And curiosity is a better way to use information than being stuck in shutdown. And so I wonder what the light is pointing towards. If you're handy with cars, you can get under the hood yourself and figure it out. I am not. So I need auto mechanics to help me.

But the same is true with our minds. If you're trying to look under the hood and you have no idea how brains work, it might, and you don't have to have money to do this with ChatGP. ChatGPT actually does a better job with some of this stuff than half of the licensed therapists that I've tried to go to in my life. So we have the tech and the tools now to make it accessible to at least take a peek under the hood. And this goes back to start with the assumption that you could be wrong.

I'm anxious. Therefore everything is shit and I'm never going to do anything and this is who I am. Okay. Well, let's start with the assumption that maybe you're wrong. Then it's now I can be curious. You can't be curious if you're so positive that you suck as bad as you think you do. If you're certain you're screwed and you're going to stay stuck. If you can make room for maybe I'm wrong, then I can get curious about what else might be possible. And anxiety is sometimes like I use up and down. Like there's the sympathetic nervous system, which is your activation energy.

your parasympathetic system, is your like coming down. just break pedal gas pedal. It's just easier. And so some people get stuck on brake pedal. They feel really, really twitchy and they can't slow down and they can't sit down and they can't watch TV unless they have their laptop and their tablet and their phone and their video game console all out at the same time. Some people get stuck in brake pedal mode and that's the traditional, what you think of as procrastinating, can't get off the couch, can't do anything. And neither of them is necessarily

bad or who you are. It's just information. All right, great. So your brake pedal is stuck and a little sticky. What can we do to change it? What are you willing to do today to change it? And so thinking of your brain as more of a car and less as a every single symptom that you feel is a sign that you suck as bad as you're worried you do. Start with the assumption that you're wrong about how bad you are and then everything can be possible from there.

Joe LaVacca (34:06)
Yeah, yeah, I love that. I think the the idea of those bodily feelings, right? That's how kind of it starts. You know, this sensation, the heart rate, sweaty palms, I feel a tightness somewhere. And then you have to kind of think of the story as to why that's happening. Right. And the the feelings, the emotions and then the thoughts are all kind of like building up with one another. But it's probably the thoughts that

keep people the most stuck, I would imagine. Right?

Britt Frank (34:37)
Mm-hmm. I love what you just said

sweaty palms racing heart clenched fists that could mean that you're about to die But it could also mean you're about to have an orgasm and so the physiology Doesn't necessarily mean anything until there's a thought attached to it So we really want to not assume that our symptoms and our feelings are the full story

Joe LaVacca (34:46)
Right.

Right. Right. And Joe's been very open about his back pain, on the podcast before. And I think now watching Joe train online, you probably have the tightness in your back when you're doing your loaded curls, you probably have all these different feelings there, but now you're able to kind of reprocess that this is good.

And, know, that's part of the biggest thing about, I think what Joe and I are trying to do on the podcast is just let people identify that, Hey, you could be wrong. These could be also feelings of safety and your tissues adapting and Joe knock out wood. Your back's been doing pretty good, huh?

Joe Gambino (35:35)
It has been doing pretty good. Not gonna lie.

So I'll take that as a good sign. question on what you just said here. say someone takes that first step and they're able to kind of check in, they feel they have anxiety, whatever they're feeling. And then they make that first assumption that whatever their previous experiences, you they're wrong and they need to seek another solution. What are some first questions that a listener, if they're not too sure, what to kind of ask themselves next?

What would they like? How, how would they start that thought process?

Britt Frank (36:08)
about getting unstuck. So it's really about making the steps so small you feel stupid doing them. And so I call these micro yeses. If you're trying to do something and you keep getting stuck with procrastination or with fear or with the imposter stuff, it doesn't matter. Assume your steps too big and you have to make it smaller. A micro yes is taking a step so small, like you'd feel like an idiot if anyone saw you do it. I'll give you an example.

Joe Gambino (36:10)
Yeah.

Britt Frank (36:36)
A micro yes for a fitness goal might not be take a walk after work. It might literally be while you're on the couch binge watching. I guess white Lotus is what everyone's watching now. Whatever. I can't do that show. take off your left sneaker and literally throw it at the door. And that's all you do that day. That is a micro yes. Now the answer I get from that is that's stupid for it. I know. Yes, it is. But here's why micro yes is work. If I throw my sneaker by the door,

Joe LaVacca (36:46)
I that show.

Britt Frank (37:06)
I haven't freaked out my brain by trying to do anything that's too big too fast. I've done something so small that my amygdala isn't detecting a threats that, cause brains aren't wired for happiness or fitness, brains are wired for survival, which means stay small, stay safe, stay in the cave, eat all the things, do none of the things. Cause then the lions won't get you. If I throw my left sneaker by the door, nothing bad has happened.

and that creates a teeny tiny little microdose of dopamine and a little bit of a new pathway. The next day, maybe I can throw two sneakers by the door. The next day, maybe I could put them on. And people will say to me, well, how am I supposed to get anywhere if I'm taking steps that small?

And my answer is you're gonna get where you want a lot faster doing micro yeses than doing it your way, which is I feel like shit, I feel like shit, I do nothing. And then maybe in three months, I get a week's worth of energy and I do too much and then I burn out and then it's six months before I try again. Micro yeses are not live tweet or I guess we don't tweet anymore. Live Instagramable, but micro yeses will get you out of stuck faster than anything else I've ever seen.

Joe LaVacca (38:12)
That's great. It reminds me of just like the ladder analogy. If you're trying to go up, you have to go step by step. And the ladder rungs sometimes feel like they are too close together to like really make sense. You feel like you're doing this. But if they were too far apart, you'd have to almost be rock climbing to get up on anything that you were going to reach to. So I really love that. What question comes to mind there is, we're giving people...

Britt Frank (38:16)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yes!

Joe LaVacca (38:39)
Practical advice, you know, your book is is practical advice Joe and I you know try to give people practical advice But then we also try to tell people hey, when should you see? Me when should you see a physical therapist? What would you tell people listening? Hey, when is it time for you to maybe give Britt Frank a bus or your licensed therapist in your area?

Britt Frank (39:03)
So it's hard because it's expensive, it's time consuming for some people who live in areas where there are no licensed specialists, they have no access. In a perfect world, we would all have personal trainers, physical therapists and psychotherapists. Like even if you don't quote need one.

If you have someone who's good at this stuff who can guide you through it, if you have the ability to do it, why wouldn't you? I love having coaches. don't know who said this quote, but the quote is this. And if you know, please tell me. If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. And so you want to make sure if you can. So how do you know when it's time? Well, can you? I know you don't want to spend the money on it, but do you have it and can you? And if you can, perhaps do.

But like, when is it time? I don't know. you done? Again, assuming that you have the resources and you can do it. Are you done feeling like crap? Cause you don't have to. don't. Assuming you have time, safety, access to what you need to do the things. But again, with chat, GPT, with online courses, they're not ideal. I'd rather sit in front of a specialist than be on with a bot. But the bot is better than nothing. And often the bot is better than some of the people. So.

Joe Gambino (40:20)
Yeah.

Britt Frank (40:20)
There are the

tools, there are the resources. If you're done feeling like crap, you don't have to feel like crap. And people who say, well, this is just who I am. Well, that's not neurologically accurate, because the brain you have now is not the brain you're going to have next year, next month. Brains change, they grow and they shrink and they build new pathways. And so this is who I am. That is going to change really quickly. And it's either going to change in the direction that you decide or it's going to change in a direction that you're not going to be happy with.

Joe Gambino (40:51)
That's interesting. And it's so funny because yesterday we had a, we got on a phone call with our buddy. Um, and me and my wife were talking to him and he mentioned that he has this friend, he moved to Japan and he has an apartment still in New York and he's has a friend who, he was telling that actually literally uses Chagy PT as like a therapist in the sense of talking. We were both sitting there like, wow, that's like, that's weird. You know, like, and then you're bringing it up here is like,

Well, and I'm almost saying it's like, it's like almost like a market guess, like maybe going to see a therapist is like too big of a step or someone doesn't want to do it. And you literally can just sit in the comfort of your own home with Chad GPT and just ask a question and get some feedback. And, you know, maybe it's not as crazy as I thought. So I just think that was like vastly interesting, like just yesterday and now today, like this conversation happening.

Britt Frank (41:32)
It's-

It's a sign. again, chat GPT

can be wrong, terribly wrong and make mistakes, but its capacity is really interesting. Like I could put into it, design me a personal training plan and give me encouragement in the style of Joe Gambino and Joe Lavaca. And it will probably get pretty damn close because you guys are so public. I've asked it, tell me, know, in the voice of Brit Frank, tell me da da da da. And I'm like, holy shit. Okay.

Joe LaVacca (41:55)
Yeah.

Britt Frank (42:05)
This is a thing. I've trained my chat GPT to know what it Like you have to play with it, but its capacity is really, and find a therapist you like on social media, then tell chat GPT, pretend you're so and so, what kind of advice would you give?

Joe LaVacca (42:12)
Yeah.

Yeah, that's refreshing to hear too. And I think so many people in our professions are so like anti, you know, don't use technology, keep coming to see me. And I appreciated the fact that you were like, well, this is going to get expensive for people. do they have

Joe Gambino (42:22)
Yes.

Joe LaVacca (42:39)
the affordances both financially, even the ability to get to a place that they have their car repossessed, that they blow all their money on credit card payments and all this other stuff that they already were sinking themselves into debt with. And I really think that that's valuable because I've had a few therapists or even clients tell me,

Well, Hey, like, why would I train with you when I can just train with chat GPT, like chat GPT can write me a program. And I've asked chat GPT, can you write me a three day strength program for like a person in shoulder pain that doesn't want to like lift their arm overhead? And it's like, sure Joe, no problem. Here you go. And I'm like, shit. Like, these aren't bad suggestions. So I tell people when they spit that back at me.

Yeah, go ahead to go do it. The end result will be the same. You'll be healthier. You'll be happier. You'll be stronger. Your shoulder will eventually start going up. If you need human coaching, that's when I'm here. And I'll be here to help you. But if you can get to the same goals, I tell people go. I love that. So thank you for saying that. No.

Britt Frank (43:29)
Yeah, do it.

It's not gonna replace human connection. And that's

why all of us who work with humans are probably gonna be okay. Tech just makes it so we don't have to, so you don't have to spend an hour writing up a shoulder program. You can then use that energy to encourage the person who you have spent time getting to know because we are still wired for connection with other humans because brains, because nervous systems.

Joe LaVacca (43:56)
Ha ha ha ha ha

Britt Frank (44:12)
ChatGPT is amazing, but it doesn't, at least not right now, it doesn't have a nervous system and it can't do what human to human contact can. I'm actually stronger in my circus gym when people are there than when I'm by myself. And there are reasons for that. So if I'm gonna try a new maneuver or something and I'm scared of heights and I get vertigo, so the fact that I'm in the air on a spinning apparatus is really unpleasant and scary.

Joe LaVacca (44:26)
Mm-hmm.

Britt Frank (44:38)
If another human is there, I will push harder, I will go faster, I will go higher, and it'll be easier. So, ChatGPT isn't gonna take away our jobs, it's gonna make it so that we have more capacity to do the human things. I don't wanna sit there and write a training plan. ChatGPT can do that, and then come in my office and I will light you up with the human stuff that a machine can't do.

Joe LaVacca (45:00)
Yeah. I love that. That's, that's the balance. I love it. I even kind of shifted my mindset right now. So thanks again, Brit. Yeah. I have my tab open right now. I'm like, I can't wait to ask Chachi PT questions later now. And now I'm inspired by Brit's words. I'm going to come up with the best strength programs and all this other stuff.

Britt Frank (45:03)
Mm-hmm.

They don't sponsor me, they should. Chat GPTPeebs, call me.

Joe Gambino (45:10)
Yeah

Britt Frank (45:21)
It's so fun. There's

a prompt I like that you guys could play with. It's a, hey, chatGPT, pretend you're my drunk bestie. Explain what I do for a living to someone in a bar. It's so fun.

Joe LaVacca (45:33)
Yeah, I was actually thinking, was like, was gonna say, you know, explain physical therapy to me like I'm tweaking eating blueberry yogurt later. Yeah, very good. I know that there was a couple of other questions that I want to be respectful of your time. But there was one that I wanted to ask you before we actually talk about your new book too, was what was the most

Britt Frank (45:39)
Yes, I love that. Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's fantastic. It's so creative. I love it.

Joe Gambino (45:46)
That's funny.

Joe LaVacca (46:01)
surprising thing that you've learned in doing your research and writing the past two books. I know you don't really remember the new one, but you

Britt Frank (46:10)
I've caught up on a lot of it.

The most surprising thing in the research is such a simple thing. It's so stupid, but it's true. It's that our brains are on our side. Like I really grew up thinking that I had this enemy inside me that was out to sabotage me and destroy me and make me feel bad and keep me from my goals. It's like, what if you started by assuming

your brain is on your side. Like what change? Everything changes. And I heard a little baby crying in the backgrounds. And so how old is your kid?

Joe Gambino (46:49)
Six months.

Britt Frank (46:50)
Six months, okay. Little girl, boy, what do you have? Okay, so when, perfect. So you have a toddler. If a toddler is cranky or has a big feeling, a toddler is gonna say, I hate you daddy. Now it doesn't mean, well, this is now proof that you are a bad parent. It's like, you know a three-year-old or a two and a half year old doesn't really know everything and that's them just trying to express something.

Joe Gambino (46:52)
Boy, we have both. We have a two and a half year old as well, but she's in school.

Britt Frank (47:15)
but there's a real need under their scream, I hate you daddy. Like that doesn't feel good to hear as a parent, but it's a reasonable thing for a toddler to yell. So what if you assumed that all the screams that you hear about how awful you are, are different parts of you that actually have a need and aren't out to get you that every symptom, every symptom, and I say this as someone who has struggled with symptoms, takes meds, goes to therapy, has trauma, I have PTSD, have CP, I have the whole lineup, but like,

What if every symptom was some part of you trying to help you and that nothing inside you was out to get you? That changes everything. So I could sum up like the takeaway from all the research I've ever done is your brain's on your side. It's on your team.

Joe Gambino (48:00)
It's an interesting way to think about it because we've talked about this on the podcast, Joe, where we feel pain, It's something scary for somebody. my God, this is bad. don't know what to do. But really, is information, right? Joe describes it as an emotion all the time. And we know when you have pain, it's an opportunity to learn about your body. It's helpful in a sense, right? It's a protective mechanism. So the same way we frame pain, right? I never thought about that, to think of the mind that way.

Britt Frank (48:13)
Mm-hmm.

Well, what's the absence of

pain? There's actually a disease called leprosy. And when you have leprosy, it disables your pain receptors. Without pain, how do we know if a stove is hot or if a knife is sharp? So people who have leprosy have no sense of when to stop. in doing so, like when I bite my nails, when I start bleeding, I stop sometimes. But someone with that disease who has no pain receptors is gonna chew their finger off because they have no, they,

Joe LaVacca (48:29)
Mm-hmm.

Britt Frank (48:53)
like pain. I'm not a masochist. I'm not saying let's be in pain just because it's fun. But the absence of pain can kill you. People with that disease will die because they have no internal cues for anything. It is an awful way to go through life being completely numb to everything. And so my thing is pain. Again, I don't like pain either. It's scary and it's uncomfortable and it's unpleasant. But if we could start with pain is on your side, it's there to tell you when

to push. It's also there to tell you when to back off. And if you can lean into it, it's got really, really important stuff for us.

And I hate it because it sucks. I don't like that that's how we're designed, but I didn't come up with the system.

Joe Gambino (49:37)
I really like how you put that. Joe, if you have any other questions you can ask about, I do want to be respectful of her time and give her some time to take the floor and talk about her new book.

Joe LaVacca (49:47)
Yeah,

that was going to be it. mean, Britt, this has been absolutely amazing. Thank you so much. I want you to talk a little bit about your new book, maybe what differentiated it from The Science of Stuck and where can people look forward to getting it? you know, I don't know if you're still taking patients, want patients, whatever, how can they contact you if they need anything?

Britt Frank (50:10)
So fun. And I think I

don't think we talked about it on here yet, but I think I found you guys because I just came across a video of you talking about the science of suck. I'm like, they're cool. I want to be on their podcast. So I really love the Internet sometimes. So my new book is called Align Your Mind and science of suck is heavy on the physiology. It's you know, here's why pain is good. Here's what's happening in your brain. Here's your gas pedal and your brake pedal. Align Your Mind goes more into all those voices in our head.

Joe LaVacca (50:18)
We tagged you in it. Yeah, we tagged you in it.

Britt Frank (50:39)
So yes, all of our thoughts inform what our body is gonna do, but the parts of you that tell you I'm not good enough, I couldn't possibly do that. Or the parts of you that say, let's date the same person again, because maybe this time it'll work. And I'm sure that, you know, sending nine texts unanswered in a row to a person I've dated twice is a great idea. So the new book is about how to help all the voices inside your head get along and make better decisions. Because again,

No one is a sabotaging purse. Self-sabotage isn't a thing. Everything we call self-sabotage is a result of one of your voices in your head untrained, running amok, doing its thing. And it's just like our physical bodies. If you don't train your muscles, it's not gonna go well. It's being a human. And again, the whole feelings thing, feelings are not great sources of information all the time. And I'll give you my easiest example in the book. Cocaine feels good.

leg day feels bad. Okay. So if I'm going by, just do what feels good, I'm going to go do a whole lot of cocaine. So you can't really make your decisions and take your actions based solely on feelings. Yes, they matter, but they're not the whole ball game. And so if you can't always go with what feels good, what do we do instead? And align your mind is the, do we do instead of beating ourselves up or just indulging every feel good thought that comes across our

And can find me on Instagram, at Britt Frank, and buy my new book, or my old book, wherever books are sold.

Joe LaVacca (52:09)
That is.

Right. And from what I understand, the book comes with cocaine in case you don't enjoy reading the book. You can just flip to the back cover. There's a line of cocaine and at least you're leaving happy and you're getting a great deal in the process.

Joe Gambino (52:26)
Yeah.

Britt Frank (52:27)
Okay. You want to, okay. So

fun story to that. So I I'm not a hoarder. I do save books. And so I have a book on my shelf that once upon a time I didn't snort Coke off of it. did snort meth off of it. And so I had that book. It's, still have it. And years later, like, well, okay. So I had the book and then a few years later when I was still sort of a train wreck, I'm like, maybe there's some residue of that meth on that book. And I licked that.

cover of that book and nope, that was just dust. So no, my book does not come with drugs.

Joe LaVacca (52:59)
This is test.

Well, yeah, not anymore. Not anymore.

Joe Gambino (53:04)
Ha

Britt Frank (53:05)
Not anymore, they used to. Damn

it. well, foiled again.

Joe LaVacca (53:10)
Britt,

well, this has been absolutely amazing. Joe and I can't thank you enough. We appreciate your time. We thank you for the work you've already done and enlightening us. We wish you the best of luck with your new book. We would absolutely love to have you back on when the new book is out and rolling and you have some time. could talk about that. Joe, is there anything else?

Joe Gambino (53:21)
Yes.

No, I have plenty of questions left for you. So a second time would be great. And I am looking forward to diving into the book and be more prepared for the next one. Let's go.

Joe LaVacca (53:34)
Alright, second time? Yeah.

Britt Frank (53:35)
Part 2.

I'll send you an advance copy of the new one.

Joe LaVacca (53:39)
Yeah, there we go. Yeah. Well, this is what we say

to everyone. Brit, Brit, we love you. Thank you so much. Joe, love you. Listeners, we love you. And don't forget to tune in to another exciting episode of the Beyond Pain podcast next week.