The Beyond Pain Podcast

Episode 43: Can Warm Ups Be For Me?

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Summary
In this episode of the Beyond Paint podcast, hosts Joe Gambino and Joe LaVacca discuss the importance of warming up, particularly for individuals dealing with pain. They explore various warmup strategies, the integration of rehabilitation exercises into workout routines, and the flexibility needed in personal warmup approaches. The conversation emphasizes the significance of tailoring warmups to individual needs and the role of accountability in maintaining a consistent fitness regimen.

Takeaways

Warming up is essential for preparing the body for exercise.

Tailoring warmups for individuals with pain can enhance their workout experience.

Integrating rehab exercises into warmups can save time and improve outcomes.

Flexibility in warmup routines is crucial for personal effectiveness.

Isometric exercises can help gauge tissue capacity before workouts.

Warmups should not take excessively long; efficiency is key.

Understanding the specific needs of clients can lead to better programming.

Using mobility work can enhance performance in strength training.

Listening to the body and adjusting warmups based on time of day is important.

Consistency in warmup routines can lead to better overall fitness results.


Joe Gambino (00:01.127)
Welcome back into the Beyond Paint podcast. I am one of your hosts, Joe Gambino and I am here with Dr. Joe on the move, LaVacca Welcome back in my friend. Welcome back in. Yes, yes, yes.

Joe LaVacca (00:11.318)
Happy to be here. Lots of big things today. We'll talk about the move. I put on the influencer light. So for those of people watching on YouTube, you'll actually see the right side of my face now in this episode. So that's pretty exciting. I was realizing like it looked like I was wearing an eye patch most of the time in all these YouTube videos and Instagram clips, especially on the right side. I don't know why, but, well, I do know why this apartment has no natural light.

Joe Gambino (00:20.635)
Hahaha

Joe LaVacca (00:40.856)
But like we were saying before, me and Avery will be moving in about three weeks time to a bigger apartment, much more natural light, freshly painted, freshly renovated. So white, clean backgrounds. It's gonna look really good, man. That YouTube quality already with this light and the natural light that I'm gonna have to match yours now, straight up.

Joe Gambino (01:04.67)
Yes.

That's it. The 18 subscribers are going to really, really enjoy. That's it.

Joe LaVacca (01:12.494)
They're gonna like it. You know, like I told you, mean, that's a 400 % increase from where we were when we started this thing. you know, little increments, little increments.

Joe Gambino (01:17.641)
That's right.

I love it, man. Well, as everyone should know by now, hopefully, unless you're new tuning in, you can find this easily on Instagram. That's where Joe and I are most active, at joegambino.dpt for myself, at strength and motion underscore PT for Lavock over there. This podcast is also on Instagram, Beyond Pain podcast, and you can find this on YouTube as well as we alluded to, cups of Joe underscore PT over there.

All right, Joey, are we talking about today?

Joe LaVacca (01:51.502)
I think we're going to continue our conversation with a little more context on warming up and what you do or I do maybe at a personal level. What do we do differently maybe for people with pain? How do our coaches program some warmups? I think we both now had our coaches on the program between Mr. Grayson and between Mr. Twanmoh Mao. So, yeah.

Joe Gambino (02:14.025)
That's correct.

Joe LaVacca (02:21.548)
Really nice that now we've introduced the world to the people behind our wonderful physiques and mindsets. and now we even have our coach, Clayton, who came on the program. So what a wonderful world we're creating. We're really blending the backgrounds of our lives together. And I just love it. And I hope the people listening love it too.

Joe Gambino (02:25.491)
Hahaha

Joe Gambino (02:35.101)
Mm-hmm.

That's right.

Joe Gambino (02:45.693)
Yeah, yes, yes. Yes. So let's dive in. We know why don't we start with, know, last last episode we talked about generalities with with warming up what we do or what we think about it. Now, if somebody was injured, you know, you're seeing them in clinic and you're helping them kind of create a warm up for their lifts or whatever it is. How would that change for you as far as the way you might kind of go about it? Are you actually putting something specific in there?

this stuff needs to be done or is it still kind of, let's just get the heart rate up, let's just get prepped for the movements, let's just get the body warm and then you get after.

Joe LaVacca (03:23.542)
Yeah, I think it, for the most part, I'll start off with a pretty generic warmup. And I think when we've chatted about programming in the past, or at least I hope we did, I typically have themes like I'm sure most coaches do for the four or eight week cycle, whether that's strength or power or, isometrics, you know, you name it. So I'll start off with a pretty big skeleton and then I'll start kind of dropping that in to.

mostly the people who are dealing with active injuries or active pain. From an individual level, if people are really thinking about pain as a limiting factor for what they're able to do, I do encourage them to start off with a warmup of three to five minutes, whether that's on the bike, the treadmill, just something that we can tap into their heart rate a bit. Begin to release some pain relieving molecules all floating through the body.

And I do encourage them to try to do that for at least three to five minutes. Now, I think most of the research would say it's probably closer to 10, but that's a delicate conversation. I know people are sort of like in a very contained space when it comes to training. So I don't want their warmup to bleed into their entire workout. Although for some people, the warmup is the workout or the warmup could be a big part of what they're going to do. And then we just sort of kind of shy that down. So from there,

Joe Gambino (04:44.809)
Hmm.

Joe LaVacca (04:50.7)
I'll probably have them more start with isometrics around the area that's in pain. And that's a little bit more to just the gauge. What's the capacity of that tissue today? I'll give them like a ramp up idea. So start off slow. If it's 10%, you know, start pushing there. It's gonna be into a wall, a foam roller, you know, maybe we work on a specific position. And then I'm gonna have them gradually take that up, up, up, up, up, up,

Most of the time, if we can get to 50 to 70 % of their true effort, I know that's subjective, that typically will match a lot of the strength-based workouts that we're gonna probably do the rest of that day. So it's sort of like a dress rehearsal. Hey, you know your knee can handle 50 to 75 % effort. Let's try to match that now with our squats, our deadlifts, our lunges, and see how it goes. And I think that's

really how I would approach most people just with pain. And there's other little nuances, but I'll stop, I'll let you share. Is there a particular warmup for your clients that you think about when it just strictly comes to pain as a limiting factor?

Joe Gambino (05:58.633)
you

Joe Gambino (06:04.379)
Yeah, as far as where I would be with my warmups with people, it's kind of like, you know, people already have a hard time fitting in some of these movements throughout the day. So I take it as a, a way, especially if the workout is going to be incorporating movements that might, you know, say we're just, I think we talked a whole lot about shoulder last time. So your shoulder again, as kind of the example of it's like an upper body movement. I'm going to have them sprinkle in some of their

Exercises that they have to do for their pain at this at the top just to start to you know If there are things that are already bringing down pain or they're working on specific qualities Especially, you know, those things will probably end up blending into what they need to do for the lifts anyway I think it's a good way to start to prepare them and just give them an opportunity to get Some of that movement in that they are supposed to be doing anyway without having to feel like they have to create more time for it so I think that's a great place to start to put that stuff the rules of How you're gonna warm up is gonna be exactly we talked about last episode. It's

you know, how are we going to start to get it more specific to your, your, your particular lifts or your workout, whatever you're to be planning on doing for that day. and just making sure that it's, going from you sure, maybe we're to do one, two movements for your shoulder. And then we're going to go into things specific to the lifts for the day. And then we're going to get a little bit more higher intense, and then we're going to get right into your, into your stuff. So that's kind of probably.

The only little nuance that probably changes I say we're going to put some stuff in the top that's going to be specific for some of the qualities that we're trying to improve. So that this way you have a little bit better access or awareness of those movements as you're getting into your into your lifts. And then we're hoping that the stuff that's already in those programs are all just going to kind of all complement each other really well to help you move better, feel better, get stronger, all those things.

Joe LaVacca (07:53.004)
Yeah, I like the idea of blending rehab into people's programs. And I always have two thoughts about this and I typically will pose it to the client. How much time do we realistically have during the course of the week to get in the things that we quote unquote agreed to in our assessment versus how many times are you actually going to be able to go to the gym? So I think I took this from Dan John.

Keeping the goals the goals. So why do you go to the gym? Hey, well I'm going there to lose weight, to strength train, to work on this, this, this. And they're usually like specific qualities. Not too many people I think are gonna preface their why do I go to the gym with hey, I'm trying to conquer pain. Or I'm trying to rehab my tendon. Or I'm trying to do this. That's a little bit more specific. I know, I don't think that

I usually think in kind of big picture. I want to work on power and speed and strength and that's a really big umbrella. But I think generally speaking, most people would agree with that. So when it comes to these ideas of blending the rehab with their warm up, absolutely. If they're a little bit condensed with time, I think as a warm up or even as a finisher, potentially even supersetting it or pairing it with some opposite features. So I'll get into that in a second.

But if they're condensed for time, your rehab exercises are typically low threshold. They can go through any sort of warmup. They can be paired with any core or maybe conditioning finisher. And if you are sticking with a shoulder as an example, so I'll stick there too, if you're doing a day where you're working on some heavy squats or heavy deadlifts, hey, when you're resting from that, why not take care of some of your rehab stuff in that superset, right?

something again, low threshold, something that you want to work on specifically. And if people are like, hey, I have the time to do whenever, know, maybe I don't have kids, maybe I live alone, maybe my job is flexible, right? Whatever affordances they have, then I'll say, all right, well, we're not even gonna worry about your rehab in the gym. We're just gonna keep working on the things that are meaningful for you. And then your days off, your aerobic days or whatever,

Joe LaVacca (10:18.082)
Then that's when you can tell me, I can take 10 or 15 minutes to work on those types of things separately. So I think, again, with the context of pain and rehab and working all this stuff in, it's really going to be individual. And I'm wondering, do you sort of take some flexibility with that? Or is accountability really first and foremost for you where, hey, look, I know if I don't drop this into a workout.

you know, giving people another opportunity to do it on their own is probably going to make them a little less successful. And I've had that happen too, obviously.

Joe Gambino (10:53.417)
Yeah. Um, mean, that's definitely a component, you know, out of conversation with one of my clients yesterday. Um, and he was like, yeah, you know, like, I mean, he's doing really well. He's like, I don't have any pain really. Like he's, he's getting back into competitive running. He took some time off from it because he's getting a little burnt out from it. And, you know, he's like, yeah, but, know, I just really need to get back in on the mobility stuff. I'm like, well, you know, what's gonna, you know, what's going to be easier? Like, you know, he's like, Oh, I have like 20, 30 minutes in the mornings. It's just a matter of me doing it. I was like, do you want me to just like.

put more of it into your workouts and bleed them all together, like would that be easier for you? So we're gonna kind of test both. We're gonna do this block and probably the next block with like the traditional way we were going and then we might start to bleed it into some of it all being together and see what he likes more and what's easier for him. So there's definitely an accountability purpose. I know for me personally, like having it all blended into one session makes it way easier for me to do it because life gets in the way, kids, whatever.

stuck in work and then also I'm not doing the mobility work that I'm supposed to do, right? So I like having it all in one place from an accountability and doing it standpoint, it's there. It also makes sense for like the way I look at things when I'm programming out for somebody is whatever the movements are for the day, we'll stick with the shoulder. Let's say we have someone doing some sort of chest press, bench press, pushup, whatever it is. We know what kind of movements the shoulders are gonna be moving through, right? They need some extension, they need some...

There's, you know, abduction of the shoulder, all that stuff. How can we start to prep those tissues? If you're already somebody who has issues in pain with extension, we're probably not going to be benching, but we may be doing some sort of pressing or getting it back into it. But we can start to train those individual qualities earlier in the sessions to give your shoulder better capacity to bench. But we're also training the tissues, you know, going back to you saying isometrics. We can use isometrics as like, I mean, it's not.

fitness, it's not sexy, right? But it's a thing that can get you building back up to those exercises. And it may actually be like a key piece in your program to load that particular pattern so you can get back to it. All the other stuff around it may have more of a fitness component to it. But when we're talking about pain and like the warmups and even in the body of the of your sessions, we need to prep those tissues right so that they can become more resilient and get into those positions better so you can actually load them.

Joe Gambino (13:14.317)
And if you're just gonna take them out of the program and never do those things, there's still gonna be that big, I think a big gap from like what your body can do to those lifts. Like yeah, sure, you can go lighter. That might help. But I also really like to kind of load the tissue specifically, extension into the rotation. How much force can we produce? How can we challenge in different ways? And then as you start to be able to load those tissues more, now when you go to bench, everything's working better in a sense. So that's kind of the two ways I look at it. Sure, there's not.

Joe LaVacca (13:39.256)
Yeah.

Joe Gambino (13:41.361)
Accountability standpoint, but there's also like a tissue prep tissue strengthening thing And I think it kind of just makes sense if you're like, okay Well, these are the things that are be doing in this session and we can just break it down to parts train those pieces And then when you go into the full workout, everything's starting to feel a little bit better

Joe LaVacca (13:57.772)
Yeah, I think the other context that I was going to mention with the warmups, know, obviously you have the skeleton. if your limiting factor is pain, hey, you know, getting your heart rate up, doing some isometrics can actually maybe help you feel a little bit better, right? You're releasing your body's own analgesics or like pain relieving type modalities or activating that system. If it's a mobility thing, like you were saying, I think I am going to be a little bit more specific or forthcoming with people to say, Hey,

we found a specific limitation in your ability to make a shape, right? And we'll stick with the bench press like you were mentioning before. Your arm just doesn't go down into that extension and maybe that internal rotation position. So we need to work on that space or that range. Now, if it's something that's fast responding, you might be able to do a foam roll, a stretch, a little quick mobility drill, and that arm really opens up.

And in that case, I'm going to basically just use then the primary mode of the load, like the bench, as the dress rehearsal for specific tissue loading. And I think this is probably where I've deviated a little bit over the course of time, where I think most of the stuff around that pain or maybe protection for most people, not everyone, is like more nervous system. So if we can create some more range for you at the shoulder,

So you can better make a shape of the bench press. And we're thinking that time is a factor. Well, we probably work through what you can tolerate on the bench. Let's just say it's a hundred pound bench press, right? We'll keep the math super simple. Once you create a little bit of that range of motion or that mobility, then for me, that tissue prep is just gonna be, let's cut your workload in half. Let's go 50%. So 50 pounds. Let's start actually getting you to audition, right?

teach your nervous system, hey, this is a threat, this is a load to my shoulder, but I can manage this. You're successful with 50 % of that weight, so then we go up to 75 % of that weight. We get a dress rehearsal again. And then, depending on how you're feeling, maybe you do a heavier set, like close to your weight that you're working on, maybe you do a 90 pound rep or a 95 pound rep, and then each time it just serves as specific input to the thing that we wanna work on.

Joe LaVacca (16:26.09)
It may be cut down a little bit more time because now you're not doing as many things prior to your workout. And then I think again, that like really big rehearsal for your body to say, I could do this. Hey, I could do this. Hey, I could do this. Like that I think is really empowering for a lot of clients. So pain wise, Hey, go do your quick warmup, hit some isometrics, show yourself what you can handle.

But mobility things, yeah, I definitely agree with you. I wanna kind of dive into that a little bit more. Or if they can't make that shape, hey, we still want to work on this. Obviously we're gonna have our check-ins, but we're not gonna do that barbell bench press today. We're gonna do it on cables. We're gonna do it on an incline. We're gonna do some sort of modification. And then in that case, there's nothing to audition. I know you can't make the shape. So why even waste time?

We'll come back and we'll check on that in a few weeks. And then when you can, then that's when we can start that kind of process all over.

Joe Gambino (17:30.435)
I like that thought process a lot. And I think this is kind of like a perfect place to kind of segue into like kind of how our warmups are shaped and things like that. Cause you know, kind of what I described a little bit is, mean, Grayson uses the internal strength model from FRC functional range conditioning stuff and all that. So the way that like his programs are kind of aligned is,

You know, you're, it's all like mobility stuff at the top. It's it's, it's all isometric heavy isometrics. It's, um, heavy eccentric and it's always rotational stuff first. like, so it's like, you know, if we're looking at the shoulder internal external rotation work dependent, and it's all based on whatever the lifts are. like, if we're talking about bench again, it would be heavy internal rotation focus. Um, if it's, and then it would kind of bleed into whatever. And then if it's like overhead portion of things, it would probably be like internal rotation, then flexion.

by like kind of prepping those tissues in a sense, it's, and it's, know, I know a bunch of times you've, you've been talking about it it's, actually interesting. It's almost shifted a little bit of way that I think about things because in the past I would do kind of what you've mentioned on this podcast before is, if you're getting ramping up and like it's bench press, like your mobility work and stuff like that is going to be lower body, right? Because you don't want it to be competing. What I've actually found is doing heavy stuff for my shoulders. you know,

when I get to my lifts, actually feel more prepared in a sense. So there's actually been a little bit of a nice thing and I just, know, it kind of all makes sense to me like tissue is tissue, right? You can stress it in any way, shape or form. Your body's going to adapt to it. So that's been a been an interesting shift, but that's kind of like the my warmups really is just kind of like all of the tissue prep stuff that they plan in there. So it's pretty heavy mobility work. Then I get into the meat and potatoes of the movements.

And that seems to be working pretty well for me right now. And overall, my body has been responding pretty well from a pain perspective. So I don't know if you have any questions on that or you want to share what you and Ross go through.

Joe LaVacca (19:38.872)
Yeah, no, think, obviously I think ultimately from an equals one, right? What do I do? What do you do? As long as we're working towards our goals and seeing results, there is nothing better, right? There's just different. So I think it keeps this idea open that there's a lot of opportunity for flexibility and not trying to fit our patients.

Joe Gambino (19:51.113)
Right.

Joe LaVacca (20:06.552)
who might be square pegs into a round hole of some sort of specific warmup. So I think the reason why I've always liked training with Ross is we have a lot of similar biases when it comes to things. And when we go out and share ideas, we share a lot of similar thoughts about frustration and growth and change and all this other stuff. So from a big picture standpoint, I think Ross knowing me so well,

gives me little bit of flexibility with the warmup. So there's nothing programmed per se, but him and I have had conversations where I kind of tell him what I go through. So for me, most of the time, I think time of day is a big factor for me on what I do as a warmup. So if it's morning or I'm working out here, which is, know, typically I wake up anywhere around six or 6.30 and I'll work out in the living room and blah, blah. But I know at that point, I'm a little bit

Joe Gambino (20:51.817)
Mm-hmm.

Joe LaVacca (21:05.87)
cooler and a little bit stiffer than I would be at three o'clock in the afternoon after taking 8,000 steps, working, doing things around the house, wherever the case may be. So time of the day is a factor for me. I will then, let's say, look at what he has set up for me. And typically, let's say if it is a bench press, again, we'll just stick with that theme. I agree with you, doing some high threshold

nervous system things always makes me feel a little bit more prepared. And the way that I've just sort of played with it was, well, all right, I do some warmups and swings and stuff for my arms, and then I'll go to like more lower body power output. And I found that it has that same sort of effect. So I'll do squat jumps or I'll do broad jumps, just something where it's like, hey, okay, cool, let me just give out that force, not fatigue.

Joe Gambino (21:51.794)
Yeah.

Joe LaVacca (22:03.598)
my upper body and see how that goes. And I think I remember reading that from what Charlie Francis used to do. He was the track coach for the USA, I think, track team. And what he would do with, say, think it was, who was that? Not Michael John, is Michael Johnson?

Joe Gambino (22:25.842)
Mm.

Joe LaVacca (22:26.21)
I like, I'm trying to remember from like the early 90s or 80s. Anyway, with a lot of the track athletes, if he knew that they were coming up to a competition, he'd have them do like a heavy bench press, you know, like a day or two before, like max out, you know, get that nervous system primed and then, you know, they go run their hundred meters. And I was like, cool, like I'm going to compare myself to Olympic athletes because why not, you know? And I've, and I've sort of felt like with just some of the generic warmups,

Joe Gambino (22:29.321)
Hmm.

Joe Gambino (22:48.046)
Hahaha.

Joe LaVacca (22:55.726)
hitting cars, which we've talked about, which are controlled rotations through that FR system. For me, I know my shoulders are gonna take load. I wanna know how they're feeling. So few cars, hey, they feel pretty good, awesome. Now I'm gonna jump right into maybe some lower body, output type things, broad jumps, squat jumps, and then I'm gonna probably just bleed right into my workout, doing that like 50, 75%, 100 rule. And then, you

I'm rolling, I'm off, I'm ready to rock. think that, you know, again, sometimes I'll cut that much shorter at 3pm or 2pm and I'm feeling good. And maybe I just worked with a client doing some hip mobility or going over some jumping or going over some, I'm playing med ball catch with them. So if I have that, that might be my warmup, just kind of working with a client. And then I just sort of roll into

You know, my 50, 75 % 100 working set. So I think that's my little nuance with myself. Um, kind of just gauge in how I feel, gauge in time of the day. And so far, at least one of the trainers came up to me the other day was like, Hey, Joe, you working, you dealing with anything right now? Cause he's had a couple of knee issues, a couple of shoulder issues. And I was like, you know what? I actually got to say, I'm feeling pretty good. I'm not dealing with anything I am concerned about putting under load.

Joe Gambino (24:15.699)
Mm-hmm.

Joe LaVacca (24:24.148)
or with running or anything like that. and I think I felt that way for, for quite a while. So I've been very fortunate now next week when it come on the podcast, you'll probably see me leaning this way because you know, my back will be out or something like that. but, I know, I know. Yeah. Well, I got this table that I'm to throw away. So I'll just do that. so yeah, yeah, but that's, that's what's worked for me. And again, like watching you train and,

Joe Gambino (24:35.561)
Yeah, can't you got a knock on wood or something Joe

Joe LaVacca (24:53.57)
Just thinking about my own personal like progressions with things. You know, again, I've been very happy to the point where I'm like, okay, well, what now? Do I need to bench press more? You know, sure. Yeah. If it happens, do I need to squat more? Yeah, sure. If it happens, but you know where I am, I'm just like, cool. I didn't think I'd be here to begin with. So let's just keep this consistency train rolling and you know, let a pound or two or five come as it may. But yeah, now it allows me to focus on some other things like.

Nutrition, which maybe we'll talk about. I don't think we have talked about that.

Joe Gambino (25:24.932)
Right. Should be. Yeah, that'd be good. Maybe episode 44 or 45 can flow down that rabbit hole. But I really like that. think, you know, obviously, you know, here on this podcast, we have not necessarily differing ideas, but we do things differently as far as our warmups go and how even just talking about when someone is injured, right, there's some nuances and difference in how we kind of go about it. And I think as a listener, really just kind of

You know, your warmups, they're flexible. They don't need to be super rigid. Um, they definitely shouldn't be taking you forever. So if you're going 35, 40 minutes, you probably need to figure out how can you condense that? Cause you definitely don't need that much time. Um, I know I've been there before in the past. Um, and now I can spend, actually, I can probably get into something with no warmup and be okay. Um, so just again, back to that point, but I think flexibility, I think is also a really good place for people to, and you can even bring back cool downs from last time, something after your session.

that if you are dealing with something that's nagging, it's just such an easy place to ask to move me because you're already doing it and you're finding that you're having a hard time fitting it in. It's a really easy place to just get in a few pieces and move it.

Joe LaVacca (26:38.67)
Yeah, perfect.

Joe Gambino (26:41.393)
Anything else you got Joy Boy? Are you going to take us home?

Joe LaVacca (26:43.15)
No, think we covered it. So Joe, I love you. Thank you for your time. Listeners, we love you. Thank you for your time as well. yeah, what was this? The heart thing, right? We talked about this? Dang, what am I doing?

Joe Gambino (26:53.309)
That's the heart thing, Olivia's getting as a pro at this. You have to watch YouTube to see the little heart, the Korean heart that I got going on here.

Joe LaVacca (26:58.69)
Dang.

Joe LaVacca (27:04.344)
Well, if that doesn't make you want to sign up for YouTube, nothing will. And please come back next week for another exciting episode of the Beyond Paint.

Joe Gambino (27:17.405)
You might have to cut off this end,

Joe LaVacca (27:19.438)
That's okay.