Episode 41: Lifting Barriers to Training with Ross Twanmoh

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• Joe Gambino
• Joe LaVacca

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Summary
In this episode of the Beyond Pain podcast, hosts Joe Gambino and Joe LaVacca welcome Ross Twain, co-owner of CrossFit Union Square and owner of Lupo Barbell Club. The conversation covers a range of topics including personal injury histories, the importance of technique versus form in lifting, gender differences in training, overcoming intimidation in the gym, and understanding training intensity. Ross shares insights from his experiences as a coach and athlete, emphasizing the significance of community and support in fitness. The episode concludes with rapid-fire questions, providing a light-hearted end to a deep discussion.

Takeaways
Injuries can shape an athlete's perspective and motivation.

Technique and form are not the same; understanding the difference is crucial.

Intimidation in the gym is a common barrier for newcomers.

Strength training should be accessible to everyone, regardless of gender.

Community support is vital in fostering a welcoming gym environment.

Training intensity can be gauged through reps in reserve.

Corrective exercises should complement strength training, not replace it.

Personal experiences with injuries can enhance coaching effectiveness.

It's important to adapt training based on individual needs and experiences.

The best time to start strength training is now.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Coffee Preferences
• 3:10 Injury History and Its Impact
• 10:20 The Importance of Technique vs. Form
• 19:36 Navigating Gender Differences in Training
• 25:12 Overcoming Intimidation in the Gym
• 29:55 Understanding Training Intensity
• 33:03 Corrective Exercises vs. Strength Training
• 35:41 Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Thoughts

Transcript

Joe Gambino (00:00.834)
Welcome back into the Beyond Pain podcast. I am one of your hosts, Joe Gambino, and I am here with my other co-host, Joe, flexing his guns, LaVacca As I got onto this screen recording this morning, he appeared to be flexing his arms at me. So that's where we are today. Yeah.

Joe LaVacca (00:15.63)
Appeared is the key word. Appeared. Not in actual sense, just not doing that.

Joe Gambino (00:21.004)
I don't know, Joe. This is to be debated. mean, we weren't recording at that time, so we can't go back to double check it.

Joe LaVacca (00:27.79)
That's fair. I do feel stronger knowing that my coach is here with us today. So that could have been maybe some subliminal messaging for you.

Joe Gambino (00:35.832)
Yeah, I think that could be and we're also here with Ross Twanmoh I he is the co-owner of CrossFit Union Square and the owner of Lupo Barbell Club Welcome on into the podcast

Ross (00:36.275)
have fun.

Ross (00:46.293)
Thank you, thank you.

Joe Gambino (00:48.34)
Well, why don't you, you know, why don't we start here? Because this is the question we have for every guest who comes on the podcast. How do you take your coffee? It's hardest question we might ask today.

Ross (01:01.173)
black into the face. That's it. Cold or hot, black coffee.

Joe Gambino (01:03.776)
There you go.

Joe LaVacca (01:03.854)
That's it. All right.

Doesn't matter. So time of the year, will you go with iced coffee when it was four degrees last week?

Ross (01:15.293)
No, I'm not one of those. I usually though, will often do an extra shot or two shots of espresso in my coffee as well. Yeah.

Joe LaVacca (01:16.482)
No, okay.

Joe LaVacca (01:23.214)
Okay, alright, now we're getting somewhere. What is the favorite coffee shop in your neighborhood or by the gym?

Ross (01:31.027)
Yeah, Alex is support local. have a spot right by the CrossFit gym called News Bar. I'm there pretty much every day.

Joe LaVacca (01:38.582)
I do love News Bar Joe Gambino, having worked in Union Square. Do you remember News Bar?

Joe Gambino (01:44.456)
No, I don't. Was that there when I was there? How long has that been there?

Joe LaVacca (01:47.608)
think it was. It's not... Yeah, I think so too. I think so too. Yeah. man. Yeah, they got some good coffee. Do you order food there as well? Because their food can be a little pricey.

Ross (01:48.789)
Probably institution at this point. Yeah.

Joe Gambino (01:52.426)
Mm-hmm. I feel like I missed out.

Ross (02:02.431)
Food is pricey. If I forget to pre-make my overnight oats, I will go pick up a bowl of oatmeal. So, they got me on that one.

Joe Gambino (02:09.688)
There you go.

Joe LaVacca (02:10.606)
It's only $19.25 and then you add the coffee on top of it and yep, absolutely perfect.

Joe Gambino (02:12.481)
You

Ross (02:12.541)
Yep, yeah, yeah, New York City.

Joe Gambino (02:18.498)
Well, Joe, for me never being there, I think this is on you because you could have definitely told me about it many, many times along our journey together in that area.

Joe LaVacca (02:29.218)
Well, New Yorkers tend to be creatures of habit. So I think when we were probably working together, we were doing our normal spots, Tabinet, we were doing Cava. I mean, it was like every other day we were just at the same lunch spots, but we had a Monday place, a Tuesday place, a Wednesday place. I will probably say News Bar for me, I always go there with like some sort of intent. Like I was like, you know what? I'm going to, I'm going to a meeting or, you know, I have like some work to do. Let me go to News Bar.

Joe Gambino (02:37.485)
Mm-hmm.

Joe LaVacca (02:58.382)
because I just feel pretty cool with all the tables they have out there and then I face out in the street and people watch. It's good stuff, it's good stuff.

Ross (03:06.793)
Yes, good spot for meetings for sure.

Joe Gambino (03:08.952)
Well, let's dive into meat and potatoes then. We're always curious on this podcast. think people's stories are probably the most powerful things as far as how it shapes who we are, what we do as coaches and things like that. So would you mind sharing your own injury history and what has that taught you as an athlete and coach and how has it shaped you today?

Ross (03:33.813)
Sure. I wouldn't say I have an extensive laundry list of injuries, but as a competitive weightlifter, any single one will tell you that you're pretty much always hurt at all times. The only notable thing I've ever had was an ankle reconstruction when I was about 25 years old. I was already working in fitness, but it's one of those things that didn't stop me. kind of keep going from that. Since then, I guess the more recent, more top of mind one is my hip has been a bit of an issue for the past year.

with weightlifting and it's purely because the combination of trying to cut weight into a weight class. So my personal body weight comes down as I try and keep lifting heavier. A lot of times it's really hard to stay healthy, especially when you have a lot of other life stress going on and you know, if poor sleep starts to impact that as well, then it's really tough to just stay healthy in general. So hasn't stopped me. You kind of figure out how to move in ways that you can accommodate and you just keep going. But

That's my big, I guess, history.

Joe LaVacca (04:37.09)
How did you come about needing the ankle reconstruction in the first place?

Ross (04:43.189)
Like every not every soccer player, but a lot of soccer players. I grew up playing my whole life and We were playing on a grass field. I think I was about 17 or 18 and no one touched me It was just a terrible grass field and my ankle flipped under and popped I heard it pop and that was the first real bad ankle sprain I had and then I probably rolled it about Eight to ten times in college and then I finally did it one more time when I was living here in New York and that was the last time where

Alright, this is pretty bad now and you're about to get kicked off your parents health insurance. So maybe you go do this now.

Joe LaVacca (05:20.526)
All right, making decisions based on the American healthcare model. I love that. you, now we've known each other for a while and I think I've spoken about you in passing on the podcast before. So for those that don't remember Ross is my coach. I owe him a lot for my own physical training, my understanding of programming and training conditioning. But in the time that we've known each other.

Ross (05:25.031)
It's a treat.

Joe LaVacca (05:46.828)
You've already had that injury, you've had that surgery. Were you as big into lifting at the time of that injury? Were you in love with barbells and competition as much as you are now?

Ross (06:00.019)
Not quite. I had just learned, I'd just taken my USAW level one right before I got surgery. So I just learned about the snatch, the cleaning jerk, all that. And that kind of got put on the back burner. And I was at a place where after my surgery where I, you know, I kept playing competitive soccer for a little bit, but then I just needed something to train for. And then eventually I found my way into my first weightlifting competition. And so that wasn't until probably two years after I got reconstructive surgery, when I really started hitting the barbells hard. So.

Joe LaVacca (06:30.018)
Do you think that the ankle injury had anything to do with pushing you a little bit more toward like strength training the way you do now? Was it hard to get back on the field for you? Was there any issues with like confidence and certainty, not being able to get at the same level that you were?

Ross (06:49.781)
Definitely not. don't know. think most people who grew up in a competitive world of some kind, as soon as it's taken away, you're just that much more motivated to get back to it. I mean, at least that's from my perspective. And also living in a place like New York where, you I was on a, we call it a peg leg. was on a, you know, walking crutch essentially, plastic piece of equipment just went straight to the ground and I was walking around on that. And just living in a city like New York where you have to sort of walk.

pretty much everywhere. It was that much more moving to get back to a place where I could walk all over the city. I could run, could play soccer. So yeah, no, I think it like lit the fire a little bit more. Yeah.

Joe Gambino (07:30.744)
I like that. Today, or maybe not today, since the surgery, is there any range of motion changes? You still have pain. How does it alter, if anything at all, the way that you have to train for your sport?

Ross (07:48.041)
I'm pretty fortunate with regard to my sport demands a lot of mobility. So, I mean, people ask all the time, what do you do for your mobility? It's like, well, my training inherently has it built in, you know, it's full depth squats, overhead squats, full depth front squats, all that stuff is testing my ankle in ways that most people probably wouldn't test their ankle if they were coming back from reconstructive surgery. I do notice that my left ankle has a little bit less mobility. However, I mean, every, if you watch anybody move,

everyone has something, some little shift, some little asymmetry to them. So I'm fortunate enough that I have enough dorsiflexion that I can still squat fairly well. And yeah, I think part of the reason it's been so successful is because I'm sort of testing that range on a almost daily basis. So.

Joe Gambino (08:18.306)
Mm-hmm.

Joe LaVacca (08:34.926)
I want to go back to something that you said, because I'm actually going to challenge you a little bit, because I think that when you mentioned how athletes in competition, when something gets taken away from them, they're, you you're more motivated to kind of like get back in and get it back. I don't know if that's always been the case with people in pain that I've seen, right? That's this like big identity crisis. Where do you think you got your confidence and your mindset from?

Was that something that you had to work on? I know you got some family that you go see all the time. Was there someone in your family that maybe instilled that in you? But I'm interested to kind of hear a little bit more of that story because I was like, wow, is that the case? My job will be a lot easier if that was the case, if everyone kind of thought that same way that Ross did.

Ross (09:19.465)
Haha

Ross (09:23.539)
I guess it kind of comes back to just like how much you love what you're doing. And for me at that time, like soccer was everything. I was still in the city playing competitive soccer. And so my thought was like, have to get back to it. I think you're right. I don't think everybody is as motivated to get back to sport when they hurt themselves. think, you know, lot of times a sport is maybe, or an injury is maybe a time when someone shifts their love or interest from one sport toward different activity. but yeah, I think that, that like competitive fire, that's something I grew up with. have a twin brother.

and I made it my mission to be better than him at everything. And so I recognize not everyone has that perspective or experience and it's a gift and a curse, but that's where mine comes from, so.

Joe LaVacca (10:06.05)
Yeah, well how would anyone know the two of you are different unless you were crushing him on sporting events or soccer or in the weight room?

Ross (10:13.757)
Yeah. Yeah. I love him to death, but I was like, I'm going to make sure they remember my name, not yours. Yeah.

Joe LaVacca (10:20.962)
Joe, me and you only have sisters, so we were just already dominating in life from the very beginning, right?

Joe Gambino (10:27.352)
That's right. That's right. That's right. Not much competition over there for my sister. So, yeah, let's shift gears here a little bit. I'm actually really curious to your thought here, because I think on social media, we're seeing somewhat of a shift where form, you know, there's the biomechanics group where form really matters. And then there's a camp where, you know, movement optimists in a sense where

Ross (10:32.596)
Well, you guys missed out a little bit.

Joe Gambino (10:53.868)
You know, you could break form, so to speak, and it's not the end of the world. So how much do you think form matters when it comes to lifting? And how are you, you know, maybe over the course of working with somebody, what are the things that you're looking for and how do you expect them to shift?

Ross (11:09.395)
Yeah, I've heard part of this dialogue on social media and I think it's important to differentiate between technique and form. And in short, these are semantics, but I think you want to make sure when you talk about technique, you're sort of talking about principles that guide a movement or guide a specific thing. And then you think of form and you recognize that, you know, there's X billion number of people on the planet. And so each of those bodies is going to move a bit differently.

And so if you try and draw these boxes and rules of how someone is supposed to move, you know, it doesn't really give the freedom to, for each body to figure it out on their own. I think I used to be a person that was the form guy or the technique guy of like, everything's got to be perfect. And that's how you're going to get yourself to the best weights and stay healthy. And I guess after a decade of doing this, watching people move in the gym, realizing that you adapt to however you're moving, there's definitely.

certain things I would guide people towards as far as technique, which is like creating tension and how to best engage the floor and set them up for as much success as possible. But after that, it kind of becomes specific to the person. It's the answer that nobody wants to hear, but it's always, it depends.

Joe LaVacca (12:22.264)
Well, I think that's a really great way of putting it. I don't know if I've differentiated out enough the word technique and form. think I've sort of kind of umbrella them together, but I think maybe that technique comes down to the process and the form maybe like into these individual parts. And I like the way that you put it that everyone's going to make the most of their process with the parts and sort of affordances that they have. But when you come into competition and at least this is

you what I have told people and I want you to kind of correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe those nuances with form or technique are much more important when you get to the competition floor because you want to have the same repeated motion over and over again. Whereas for people that I'm rehabbing, I'm trying to increase their variability or increase how many parts that they move. So do you think that they're

Is some truth to that? Am I completely misguided thinking like the higher the level skill, maybe there's a little bit less wiggle room for things versus just kind of getting back to some entry level positions with people.

Ross (13:33.319)
No, I think you're right in that regard. And you can extend this beyond like sort of a competitive viewpoint, which is you're trying to train people for things that are unpredictable. And in competition, that absolutely happens because whether it's for instance, in the world of weightlifting, you're going for a weight you've maybe never cracked that before, or in any other sport, you're finding yourself in a possibly a position that you may not have found yourself in before. And that's what could lead to injury. But the idea is that the gym becomes predictable. And so you're able to sort of

sort of control these factors and put people in positions that give them stress and broaden their capacity, twist and forces in ways that like they might see out there, if that makes sense.

Joe Gambino (14:17.496)
Yeah, it does. With the going back to like technique, you know, say with like, you know, the umbrella term for that that you used, when do you find it acceptable for technique to break or not be optimal? I'm just kind of curious because like being in a virtual environment, I think it more and more kind of changed my viewpoint to some degree. So I'm curious to where you are.

Ross (14:41.929)
I guess the best way I could describe that would be don't think of it as a technique that's breaking. Think of technique as a... almost like a spectrum, right? You have people whose technique on certain movements is flawless. I'll take...weightlifting is probably the easiest way to describe this. Weightlifting, there are specific principles we try and teach people with how to get a barbell to move the fastest, get it above your head as quickly as possible, and be safest when you're pulling under the bar as well. Outside of that, I'm...

short, I had short levers, right? I could take Lavaca here and set him up for an Olympic lift. And I could tell him these principles, but recognize like his form and my form are going to be very different. And so as opposed to his technique being good or bad, it's more just here's where your technique and how to move this bar for you can improve. and that's kind of the thing we work on in a competitive sense, but also then you extrapolate that to sort of training in general, which is like, you can make this better.

I wouldn't say it necessarily breaks. There's definitely times where a weight is maybe too heavy, where you can start to see form break down. But at the end of the day, it's not like an all or nothing situation.

Joe Gambino (15:50.552)
Sure. And do you ever like, sorry, Joe, like play into that? there any times when you're like programming for somebody from like a strength perspective where you're looking for that like border of, you know, good technique, so to speak, and where it to break down and like allowing some of that to actually happen.

Joe LaVacca (15:52.28)
Chip.

Okay.

Ross (16:11.221)
Absolutely. I think if you are training, doing strength training as it's designed, going heavy enough, working with weights that are actually improving, you know, contractile strength and all that stuff, you will get to a place where it gets quote unquote ugly. And we talk to athletes about that all the time. It's like your absolute best might get a little ugly. But the whole point is that us working on, on your technique and paying attention to that as you're working some maximal loads, it's like, you'll be better prepared for those positions when they do start to suffer a little bit.

And that's what kind of prevents you or helps prevent you from getting injured.

Joe LaVacca (16:46.566)
What I was going to say, Joe, about the virtual space and form and technique breaking down, it reminds me of the definition of pornography. I can't really describe it, but I know it when I see it. So I always sort of went with that idea of, well, this is so far off from what I would consider a squat, a hinge, a push, a pull, that maybe it is worth intervening and coaching. But then even

What I realized was some people, even with that, you know, quote unquote break of form that I would deem maybe too far off the beaten path, right? Cause there's always context with this. I started to ask them where they would feel things, especially in that virtual environment. And they, you know, grab down on their quad or their hamstring or their calf exactly where I would want them to feel that force. And they would tell me this is what's creating fatigue for me. And I sort of said, perfect.

And it brought me this realization, well, that I can't see force moving through people's bodies. So who am I to determine, especially in that virtual space, how you're moving, what you're moving, how that is efficient or not effective for you. So I started to fall back into this idea of, why don't you just tell me where you feel it, you know, like in the Seinfeld movie phone, you know, sort of thing too. And I found that that at least helpful for guiding some of the process and then giving people some play. Well, why don't you try to find.

your hamstring. Why don't you try to find your quad in that squat? Why don't you try to find this and just take your time and realize that you're going to fail. And I always kind of felt like that maybe was giving people some opportunities with all those pieces and parts to now make the most of their technique, which I'm going to start to use. So thanks for that.

Joe Gambino (18:29.464)
Yeah, I like that. I'd say in a virtual environment, one thing that I've like really learned and I started learning at a perfect drive and like, you know, using FRC and like cars and stuff like that where like people don't like, you're not going to get it initially when I'm coaching something, especially if it's a little bit more complex and you're learning something new. So if you don't get experience doing it, even if it's wrong, you're not going to have, you're not going to be able to improve the next time you do it. And there was always something that said, Oh, I didn't do it at home because I wasn't sure if I was doing it right. So now part of my education is like, just do it. doesn't matter.

Unless you feel pain, it's not going to break you. But now when you come back to it the next time, it's going to reframe your ability to learn the movement or change it or pay attention to something that we want you to pay attention to. And then what you see now, especially now I'm doing virtuals like every week, if I'm looking for some sort of change or something to feel or then pay to pay attention to something, it just improves week over week. And that's the kind of things that I think we should be paying attention to more than like, okay, in this exact moment in time, do I need to?

manipulate all these variables. I think letting someone experience it, it just helps them learn their bodies better in a sense.

Joe LaVacca (19:36.238)
Joe, question from a listener. How about this? Ross, you ready for this one? This comes from Barbara. initially when Barbara asked me this question on Instagram the other day, I was sort of like, well, why would this make a difference? I guess I never really considered this. And then I realized, well, this was just my, you know, male attitude taking over and I had to check myself and, you know, go apologize to everyone and.

Joe Gambino (19:38.834)
go for it.

Ross (19:42.261)
Alright, bye.

Joe LaVacca (20:04.354)
I thought then when I talked to her little bit more about it, her question was actually really, really good. And she gave me a lot of sub questions, but I'm going to start off with a pretty generic one. Are there different things that you consider as a coach when you're working with a male or female athlete as far as assessments, programming, exercises you would pick? and I'll stop right there and let you kind of just like give us some ideas right off the top. If you do.

Ross (20:32.243)
Yeah. this, the dynamic, the demographic of male versus female when training clients, I think it's honestly just a slice of the pie of what I'm looking at based on exercise, prescription assessment program, you name it. there's a lot more to it. And honestly, I think the one that to me is, is a greater, indicator of how I'm going to work with a client is their training age.

And by training, it just means like, how well trained are you essentially? How long have you been doing this? What have you been doing in the past? What can you dictate sort of what I think you'll be able to accommodate? And then from there, also sort of tell me what you can handle moving forward versus just male versus female. I mean, obviously you have other implications, like for instance, when you're a pregnant client or someone who's just had a child, there's a, there's other things, other factors like that, that would play in with the binary of male versus female.

Again, just for me, it's more of like a piece of the puzzle when it comes to training as opposed to like the thing that factors in.

Joe LaVacca (21:35.202)
Yeah, she mentioned anatomy and that's, you know, typically from my point of view, aside from the obvious differences, I never really viewed our anatomy as much different. You know, we have different balances of hormones and chemicals, okay. But the only thing anatomically I would always consider working with a female athlete was, was she pregnant? And even then it was sort of like, how far along was she?

Then on that flip side, like you said, the opposite side of that journey. Well, now you'd lose the baby, right? Well, you give birth to the baby. That was probably poor terminology there. You give birth to the baby, nine months, you're sort of like progressing. And then all of a sudden, one day later, it's different again. So I think for me, those were always sort of like the biggest variables. But one other thing that she did mention too, was even sort of injuries.

And I think that maybe classically, and maybe Joe, you could chime in on this, like coming up in the PT world, was, you know, women are more prone for this injury or that injury and, women should train their hips because of, you know, their angle of their knees and things like that. So I think a lot of this stuff has, you know, thankfully lost favor over the years, but do you still find that with your women athletes in particular, that they come in with different goals or desires?

to the gym, do they come in with different notions about training? Like, I should do this, I should do that, or I shouldn't do one thing or the other.

Ross (23:10.621)
Yeah, well, unfortunately, this is a much more meta topic, I think, with regards to sort of the way that we push men versus women to train and how that's been over the past few decades. And so I think that, you know, there has been a very specific bias towards, you know, men, mainly strength training versus women. And I think the reason why you see anybody getting injured is the lack of strength training. And because there is this

very specific binary of body types that we kind of like subscribe to for the two, it lends itself to men training heavier and working with bigger weights versus women sort of avoiding that. These are not things I subscribe to. These are things that have been easily disproven in the last 20 years, right? But that has had an impact on how people train. So when it comes to women,

coming to the gym, I'm fortunate enough that I've helped build communities in which we really focus on strength training. Crossfit and weightlifting are two sports that are in the strength world. So that's almost something I don't necessarily have to worry about. I do have people every now and then that I'll talk to and there's the word bulky comes up. I don't wanna get bulky, I don't wanna do this. And I am at a place where I go, I can't believe I'm still having this conversation with you. But I entertain it because you're never gonna bring somebody along unless you.

take the time to listen to them, hear how they feel, try and empathize with their situation as well. And then hopefully just try and push them and guide them in the right direction towards starting to work with heavier weights. So.

Joe LaVacca (24:44.76)
Joe, you're muted.

Joe Gambino (24:48.098)
call Joe, the known with the baby crying in the background. That's it. I say, I really love that thought that, that, mindset there. And I was just curious if you see, is there anything besides like the, you know, I don't want to get bulky. it doesn't matter male or female, but what kind of, you know, things that people pop up that are like hurdles to kind of getting started with strength training.

Ross (25:12.789)
I think the biggest hurdle is intimidation, which is fair. And that's a very valid concern. And if we're being honest, know, gym culture is frightening and it's not the most friendly in the world. And I think that comes the responsibility to change that dynamic comes from those people that are constantly in the gym and confident there and comfortable in the space to be more welcoming to people that are new. Um, even just a simple, introduce yourself to someone who looks like they're new, you know, not necessarily.

giving unsolicited advice per se, but you know, trying to foster an environment where we recognize everybody's trying to get better. Yeah, I think if that plus I think some knowledge, I think just some general education around how to lift sort of how to organize a very simple program. Having those two things together, a more welcoming environment and a little bit more knowledge around movements and programming would be, will create less barriers to entry.

Joe Gambino (26:10.104)
Yeah, I actually really agree with that. The gym, the first gym I worked for in Astoria, was like, you know, like when you walk in, it's like the center, like the welcome area, the desk is in the middle of the gym. And then on one side was like all of the cardio machines, they had like a turf over there, you know, some dumbbells and kettlebells on that side. But the other side was like all of the, you know,

weightlifting machines, your squat racks, you know, that was like, it was like a strength side. And a lot of the clients that I have, especially the females, it was like, yeah, I'm nervous. Like I'm, I don't really want to go on that side. And then you almost have to like, okay, let's start over here. There's built some confidence as you go on. And then you slowly like, okay, let's do like one exercise and like slowly introduce them to that. And, know, as they get experienced and they feel more confident, right. It's like then all of sudden they love being over there. So I completely agree with you with that point. think that's really.

a large hurdle, think for anyone just getting started in fitness. It doesn't matter male or female, but it's just, that stood out to me significantly. I've seen that over and over again.

Joe LaVacca (27:13.698)
Yeah, I love saying hello to new trainers and people who come to the gym because they're almost confused. Like, why is someone being kind and outgoing and asking my name? well, and like you said, I mean, I think the biggest thing I valued over the years from CrossFit was that community and every single person I've worked with. And I would say your gym and CrossFit South Brooklyn, especially those are the ones I have the two closest relationships with. But

The data sets that I have from those people coming from you guys in South Brooklyn, it's a family. I mean, I see you guys on Instagram, it's Christmas, it's Thanksgiving, you guys are having celebrations together, you're always picking each other up, there's always smiles. Anytime I've met you in the Union Square gym, it's just like everybody, again, super friendly, super nice, eye contact. So that welcoming environment is, I think, so crucial. And I have not really seen...

anything else other than that CrossFit community really build on that yet and really make it whole. So I appreciate what you guys are doing as far as that, man. That's really great.

Ross (28:24.661)
Thank you. You actually, you would find it too, if you dove a little deeper into like weightlifting and powerlifting communities. Um, I recognize the entry into them may be a little bit higher just because it's usually more of a competitive realm as opposed to just general fitness. But yeah, my thing is like invest in strong women, whether they're coaches, members, friends, you name it, because I don't know, that's just a principle I stick to.

Joe Gambino (28:47.16)
I will say Joe people being a little offset when you say hi in a gym when they're new or whatever it's that's a New York thing man there's the biggest culture sock shock moving down south you know the first time we came down here we're just driving through communities we have some friends here we were visiting so we're like you know we're thinking about moving here looking at communities and anytime you're driving through a community people just waving to you you're walking down the street people wave to you I'm like what I like feel like I'm about to be jumped

Joe LaVacca (28:48.398)
Alright, love that.

Joe LaVacca (28:58.053)
totally.

Joe Gambino (29:14.464)
I know anything like you get approached to New York. Your guard is up high here. It's like a normal round-the-mill thing. It's quite a weird thing. So that's a New York thing. I'm new in the gym, I think.

Joe LaVacca (29:25.568)
A hundred percent, a hundred percent. Maybe, maybe we got time for one or two more questions if it's okay with you, Ross. Maybe building off of this idea of intimidation being like a big barrier for people. I know one of the things that comes up with people I work with all the time, and maybe this is a social media driven thing is how hard should I be working? know, rate of perceived exertion, reps in reserve, as many as possible, trained to failure.

What do you think is the best barometer for people to use to know if they're working hard enough at the gym?

Ross (30:05.941)
I personally use reps and reserves probably the most often. Reading a perceived exertion is, I think, really challenging for someone who isn't as well-trained to try and understand the difference if you were to put it on a scale of 10, right? To understand the difference between I'm working at a three out of 10 versus I'm working at an eight out of 10. And I can say that just by watching someone move, right? I'll say,

How challenging does that feel? I have already clocked how challenging this is for you, but I want you to tell me because I need to know what's going on with you. And you know, cranks out a set of eight super fast. Oh, it was like seven out of 10. No, no, it probably wasn't. But reps and reserve is a good metric. And I think it's important to communicate to them, to any client or member or athlete, sort of what you're expecting, right? Like I want one to two reps and reserve, meaning if you were to try and squat this

one to two more times you physically could and that third rep might not come back up. As long as they understand sort of the prompt, I think that's one of the better metrics of how hard to be working.

Joe LaVacca (31:13.326)
I also find it a little bit more objective too. And like you're saying, when people give us that, I'm working at an eight out of 10 or nine out of 10, it's like, okay, great, we're gonna rest 90 seconds. And then on the next set, I want you to just do as many as you can. And they end up getting 10, 15 more reps than what we were targeting. And I'm like, great, do you think we can move up a little bit now on that next phase? do you have, when you have that conversation with a client.

Is there an algorithm in your head where you're trying to shoot for a tough eight, a tough 10, a tough whatever number, if they blow that number out of the water by five, do you go up 5 % in their next set, 10, 10 % in their next set? Do you have anything like little heuristics that you use for that?

Ross (31:56.437)
I don't follow any strict hard rules. There's always like the two by two rule, right? Which is God, that's probably ancient. Something I read when I was back in college, which is if you need two more reps on the last two sets, you should be increasing weight. I don't, I kind of just, gauge by how that person is doing and feeling that day. And then obviously I have like a, based on a program, like how would I be progressing this? I have in my head, okay, I'm going through it and you're going to make the progression to do that. I mean, I'll put it on paper, but at the same time, like if I were to choose

to do something very specific in the next session and say that this person said a bender of a weekend, this person has other life factors going on. I don't know that it's going to work out perfectly in the next session. And so that's where you just have, you have an idea and a roadmap in your head of roughly how heavy you're going to go a following week or later in the month, but just be prepared for the fact that it might derail based on other factors.

Joe LaVacca (32:48.494)
weekend warriors in a different sense. don't know if we have enough time to jump into that, although I'm sure we could. Joe, do you have any other questions for our boy? Maybe before I give him a surprise this or that.

Ross (32:49.749)
Hmm.

Joe Gambino (32:55.596)
Ha

Joe Gambino (33:01.752)
yeah. Maybe make it, you know, you kind of rattle it off quick, but I am curious with, you know, there's a, see often, at least from a rehab perspective, a lot of people, they feel like they have to do like all these corrective exercises. They need to move a certain way, feel a certain way before they can get into strength work. Where do you kind of fall in this stance? And are there any like non-negotiables you need to be able to do X, Y, and Z?

before we really start to load you or do this.

Ross (33:34.901)
I don't think there's any non-negotiables, you know, as long as you're not coming back from some traumatic injury, you know, in which case that is well out of my scope, right? I'm not the person to be working with you if you are just getting off the bed or something from something that was pretty traumatic. when it comes to corrective exercises versus strength training, what I tell everybody is like, should be doing both to get back to where you want to go. I know some people live in a world of pain where they just kind of keep doing pre-hab rehab exercises and

just doesn't progress from there. And then the trick that I try and tell them is we have to figure out how you can move, what ways moving feels good and you're able to load and then we load that. It could even be as simple as, you it really hurts my back when I'm trying to do this back squat. I'm like, fantastic, let's try a double dumbbell suitcase split squat and see how you feel. And it's just like a bit of trial and error. Don't throw too much at them in the beginning, but it's let's move first, move first, see how you feel. And then we go from there. And I think a lot of what they're looking for from

whether it's you as a provider or myself as their coach is part of the confidence to just make sure they can do it. A lot of people sort of look for that validation elsewhere. so teach them, show them, and then sort of guide them to a place where like they're going to be okay. Yeah.

Joe LaVacca (34:51.598)
Love it. All right. All right, cool. I'm going to give you a couple options, Ross. No, you don't have to explain yourself. It's just going to be this or that. And we'll keep it gym related because we've been talking about it. Squats or deadlifts?

Joe Gambino (34:51.99)
Yeah, well said.

Ross (35:04.693)
Cool. Squats.

Joe LaVacca (35:07.704)
Barbells or kettlebells, pushups or pull ups.

Ross (35:09.981)
bells.

Ross (35:13.431)
pushups.

Joe LaVacca (35:15.094)
Running or sprinting?

Ross (35:17.808)
that's tough. I might say running on this one.

Joe LaVacca (35:21.824)
Okay, all right. Last one, rower or salt bike.

Ross (35:27.015)
salt bike but that's because I'm 5'4 and that's not fair.

Joe LaVacca (35:29.314)
There you go everyone, that's it. If you wanna get fit, you're gonna squat, use barbells, get on the assault bike, run, and do your pushups. And now Coach Ross has just given us a very well-rounded program. Dude, anything you wanna leave the listeners with, any thoughts?

Ross (35:41.501)
Yeah

Joe Gambino (35:53.622)
where they can find you, things like that.

Joe LaVacca (35:55.202)
Yeah.

Ross (35:56.717)
I mean, if you're in New York City, obviously crossing Union Square or Lupo Barbell Club. No, guess thank you guys for what you do. I think this is a very important topic. It's something that's kind of conversation I have often. And so to put it in one place, I think is, is fantastic. And I guess the only other thing I tell people generally is like, if you haven't started strength training, the next best time is now.

Joe Gambino (36:19.574)
Love that. And Joe, think this is going have to be a segment that we do on every episode because I'd be curious to see what people say. And I think we're going to have to run through it on the next episode to see where we fall. Kind like that. I like that this or that. Well, Ross, thanks again for popping on the podcast. It was great to connect a little bit more face to face than just through social media and.

Joe LaVacca (36:20.066)
love it.

Joe LaVacca (36:29.248)
Alright, very good, I love it.

Ross (36:39.925)
Thank you guys.

Joe LaVacca (36:42.254)
All right, well, yeah, you guys know I love you, listeners, we love you, and thank you all for tuning in, and don't forget to come back next week for another exciting episode of the Beyond Pain podcast.

Ross (36:42.429)
Awesome, thank you guys.